Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby JonnyBoy » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 pm

I use the Eminence Commonwealth speakers, and they sound like the E120's, relatively. They are constructed the same and their tonal/sonic graphs are similar. They have a high sensitivity, and sound great to me and my band mates. Different amps push the speakers differently too, so comparisons with other peoples amps can be misleading and significantly different sounding. If you are using some power in your rig they arrive to a suitable place. I can pull Jerry tones with them all day. THEY ARE WAY TO HEAVY. I really didn't consider this when I built my 2x12 cab, I wish I did because I would have gone with something else. But, they are damn fine speakers, and can take a load of power. The dust cap gives them great presence. :cool:
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby Jon S. » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:36 am

JonnyBoy wrote:Different amps push the speakers differently too, so comparisons with other peoples amps can be misleading and significantly different sounding. :cool:

Truer words were never spoken and they're words we all would do well to remember in our speaker conversations when we're laying our shoulds and expectations on others.

That being said, a PSA and my next step.

PSA: Weber is still - right now - building their JBL-voiced NeoMags. I've read on this and other forums people posting to the contrary. They're wrong. I spoke with Brian at Weber this morning and ordered a new pair for myself. The web site disclaimer that some are misinterpreting as meaning the NeoMags are no longer available applies solely to other speaker designs in the works.

And wa al: copped m'self a pair of NeoMag 12s, 16 ohms, cloth surround guitar cones, aluminum domes. Estimated arrival is in 2 weeks and as soon as they arrive, a pair of perfect condition Emi Neo Lil Texas speakers will be for sale cheap. :oops: As always, I'm GRATEFUL for y'all's assistance!
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby keirweir » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:03 am

Laytonco wrote:Man, will someone start a thread on the K120s. I just bought two, put them in a HT 2x12 cab and have played them through my Alembic, my Schecter hollow body and my SG and man oh man, nothing - absolutely nothing sounds like these. I am so addicted, I'm forgetting to eat at night!.These are original cones. I'm scratching my arms, rocking and salivating right now. I need to get home.....muble mumble mumble...

Peace,

Gil



Thats what I am talking about... I purchased my 2nd K-120 and 5 days fore the speaker was delivered my amp blew. So I am just sitting on these K's waiting...waiting..waiting... for my amp to get fixed.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby hogan » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:05 am

Jon S. wrote:
PSA: Weber is still - right now - building their JBL-voiced NeoMags. I've read on this and other forums people posting to the contrary. They're wrong. I spoke with Brian at Weber this morning and ordered a new pair for myself. The web site disclaimer that some are misinterpreting as meaning the NeoMags are no longer available applies solely to other speaker designs in the works.


http://www.tedsforums.com/forum/index.php?topic=3402.0

Not much to misinterpret there. That's from the owner of the company. They didn't exactly make what's going on perfectly clear. Right around the time of that thread, i ordered 4 neomag 12's and it took 2 1/2 months to get them. When I called to get to the bottom of what was taking so long I was told by CJ that they were redesigning the circuit and that after all current orders were built the line was on hold. No matter, they are making Neomag12's currently and all is good.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby aiq » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:03 pm

I've been waiting for a while to pull the trigger but reading this thread gave me GAS so I just ordered 2x10 aluminum cone neoMags for my Custom Vibrolux Reverb. The best amp I ever had was my old JBL loaded BF Twin - lost in a highway crash.

I think of the CVR as a "half Twin". I've had the mods for more headroom and hum removal, love the overall tone. We played out for the first time Thursday since I got the CVR...the Jensens did not cut it in the loud situation...breaking up, lacking clarity.

Email from Weber said 14 days to build and ship.

Next up one of those mystery boxes from Sarno.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby nabco » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:31 pm

HMMMMMM, Lets think about this for a second. What speaker manufacturer did Jerry use almost exclusively? (JBL) For what 30 years or more And for the most outrageous mind melting high wire act and LIVE shows you could even imagine
If you want Garcia type speakers do yourself a HUGE favor get the JBL'S E , K, or lastly D in my opinion. The E120 is unbelievable. The sound is so satisfying you will want to buy more of them!!! I did and do not regret it at all.
I started with a JBL K120, and then ended up now with 3 JBL E120 and a JBL e110!!! I do use all of the speakers on different occasions! I have many cabs and combos to use!!! BOTTOM LINE FOR ME >>>>>>>>>>>>> JBL E120 JUST LIKE *** JG*** he didn't use nut nelse so why should you??? Come on now! is this actually a prank topic? This one seems to easy!?!?
anyhow, I hope this helps.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby JonnyBoy » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:23 am

nabco wrote:HMMMMMM, Lets think about this for a second. What speaker manufacturer did Jerry use almost exclusively? (JBL) For what 30 years or more And for the most outrageous mind melting high wire act and LIVE shows you could even imagine
If you want Garcia type speakers do yourself a HUGE favor get the JBL'S E , K, or lastly D in my opinion. The E120 is unbelievable. The sound is so satisfying you will want to buy more of them!!! I did and do not regret it at all.
I started with a JBL K120, and then ended up now with 3 JBL E120 and a JBL e110!!! I do use all of the speakers on different occasions! I have many cabs and combos to use!!! BOTTOM LINE FOR ME >>>>>>>>>>>>> JBL E120 JUST LIKE *** JG*** he didn't use nut nelse so why should you??? Come on now! is this actually a prank topic? This one seems to easy!?!?
anyhow, I hope this helps.


I think all agree with you completely on that, but the older I get and STILL the lack of roadies willing to work for me for free on my local tour schedule has me wondering about some lighter FKNG speakers that can come close. I am sure, no I am positive that the Fat man himself would be using neo mags if he had to pull up to the gig and lift his own boxes to the stage!! :lol: At the end he was using no speakers and still sounded like Jerry coming through HUGE speaker setups direct from the board. But you're right, JBL K's and E's are Jerry's normal speaker and thus get you a step closer to his "equipment sound" so that you can work on the other 95% (technique) that makes his sound complete. I think that's the point, a lot of guys mimic his technique so well, a JBL sounding speaker would not make much of a difference in the overall "Jerry sound" for them in a live setting.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby Jon S. » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:06 am

I've posted this before in other contexts but it's worth repeating: My name is Jon Silberman, not Jerry Garcia. I like Jerry's playing and tone and he's a huge influence on me but I'm not trying to be him. I have my own needs and goals. And they're not fulfilled by 18-20 lbs. apiece speakers. :smile:

With due respect, if Jerry had to have carried his own cabinets and NeoMags had been available in his day, he might have used them, too (or hit the gym regularly, another thing I do that Jerry didn't).

Thank you, Weber, for your NeoMags. :smile:
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby NeebruM » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:21 pm

Does anyone have experience with those Beyma Liberty-8 that are "supposed" to be exact copies of the JBL E120's?

How about Hemp cone recones of actual E120's? :?:
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby Crazy 9.5 Fingers » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:10 pm

I am relocating soon, will finally have my home studio set up, as well as put some gear in a rehearsal space. I have a Fender Twin RI, stock and a Phenomenal '80s Boogie Mark1v. Both are in flight cases and weigh a friggin ton, the days of me bringing them anywhere are probably slim and none once I set them up in our space.

I won't be playing huge places, small clubs if any. I have owned it on some evenings playing through a Silverface Vibrolux as well as a Blackface DR, and even DR Reissue with a Maxon od pedal that were both borrowed. They are lighter amps though the Vibroluxx was kind of a beast. The AXE fx and the SmS unit idea entice me, but I fear for my learning curve. I like to plug and play, I know my fender knobs and what they do for me and my guitars. any suggestions as far as the speaker choices for the afrorementioned combos?
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby modz » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:55 am

I have switched to 1x12 cabs now. I love my K-120's and carrying one at a time hurts but doesn't kill me. I always say "to sound good I have to carry heavy things and lots of them" . I can set them one on top of each other and direct one to the left a little and other to the right a little. My favorite is spacing them apart for stereo.
I have been trying a lot of cabs with different speakers before sending them out (cool part of my job for sure) and all are against my k-120's. Nothing really compares to the K's in my mind / ears. There are a lot of speakers I love for different sounds. If I like a speaker it doesn't have to be for the Jerry sound at all. If someone straight out asks me how to get the Jerry sound I say K's 1st and D's 2nd. Just my opinion.. I'm not in a Dead band right now, we play 99% originals but there is NO escaping being haunted by Jerry in every aspect of my life so it shapes my tone for sure but doesn't dictate or set limits. We do kick a different Dead tune at every show though.
So I blow a speaker before a gig this weekend and call Sarno (we live about 25 minutes away from each other) and ask him if he has a spare I can mooch. He says "I have an attempt at a JBL clone by Peavey". WTF Brad, is what I was thinking but I had to check it out because I trust Brads opinion and he saved a show. It has an aluminum dome and looks pretty beefy so I stuck it in my HR Deluxe and did the gig with the Peavey Black Widow BW 1201 wired positive to positive then pos to neg on the JBL. The speaker really sounded great. I hate to say it but I like it! I think it found a home in my fender until another K comes along but even then I will continue to use this speaker someplace. Thanks again Brad.
I think there will be some screeching over my Peavey post:) I wanted to hate it but I didn't!
My rig is a HR deluxe (with PEAVEY????? speaker????) I know!!! I hate to say it.
A 1x12 open back which is 15x15x13 inches deep with brads prototype SMS that he turned me on to and powered by a solid state power amp (I have 2 1x12 cabs but only used one).
I love the fast attack of the solid state amp and how it doesn't compress at louder volumes and on the other side my HR deluxe squashing like crazy. Happy medium. Still looking for a perfect solid state amp. This is not my ideal rig by a long shot! If I had the $$$$ it would be a lot different but the K's would be there for sure. I like one side solid state and one side tubes though. When I hit my stereo panner (through a stereo PA) and supported a piano solo the crowd really noticed it. I don't have an OBEL right now so I have a Volume pedal after everything but before the delay and I have (hardwired) loops set up for my pedals. I have had the chance to check a few neodymium's out but nothing jumped out so far. Let me have it now:) I'm ready..................... ha ha
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby Jon S. » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:18 am

You pick NOW, Tracy, to explain the 2 1X12 approach? What're trying to do, get me to order TWO new cabs from you this time?! :P

I am enjoying this SSP Jerry 2X12 now, though, and Weber told me on Monday my NeoMags should ship by the end of the week. :smile:

Image

And while I'm at it, here's my new Philtone Jerrycaster. Eventually, I'll post more on it here (been busy of late).

Image

Or you can see and read more here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=710218
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:50 am

Yes, that Peavey speaker Tracy mentioned is quite a sleeper. A number of guys in the pedal steel world are aware of them, but not many others out there have even heard of it. This speaker in particular is a late '70s up to mid-'80s Peavey 1201 Black Widow. It was made by Peavey in the late '70s after they kept blowing up the K120's they were putting in some of their louder amps. They literally cloned the JBL cone, same 4" voice coil, same exact JBL curvillinear cone shape, etc. They used a ceramic magnet, so it's actually a predecessor to the E120 before JBL got around to it. These speakers voice almost identically to a K or E120, but the paper is thinner than an E so it's a hair sweeter. They say you can literally remove the cone from one of these Black Widow frames and install it on a D, K, or E120 frame. It's that identical.

Peavey eventually stopped making this particular speaker as they modified the voice coil gap on their Black Widow series going for a much higher power rating. They haven't sounded the same since this change, so you can't compare this speaker to the more modern Black Widow. This is the original Peavey JBL clone with the flat magnet with the spider web sticker on it. It's about as close as you can get to a real JBL, and in some ways it's actually warmer and less bitey. Great pedal steel and country guitar speaker, and really does do a nice Dead style speaker too. They can be found in some vintage mid/late '70s Peavey Session 400 pedal steel amps made in the 2-12" configuration. They were also stock in the earlier Peavey Artist 1-12" tube amps. Those were Peavey's not so great attempt at competing with Mesa Boogie. But the speakers can be found on eBay. Anyway, it's a rare and shockingly cool speaker.

Brad

1201 cone.jpg
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1201 magnet.jpg
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Last edited by SarnoMusicSolutions on Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby playingdead » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:05 am

That's hysterical ... when I was 18 (1981 ... ouch), I played through a new Peavey Special 120 watt amp with a Black Widow in it. I pulled the Black Widow and put a brand new E-120 in it, and remember thinking that the most obvious change to the amp was it got a lot heavier. It didn't sound remarkably different. Wow.

Not to get too off topic, but can anyone recommend a nice pair of 10" speakers for my Vibrolux? I have the two K-110s in an HT cabinet, and they sound sweet, but I'd also like to put something in the amp itself that's a little more vintage old school breakup tone, something I could crank up a Telecaster through.
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Re: Slight reprise: best speakers for Jerry tone?

Postby strumminsix » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:23 am

playingdead wrote:Not to get too off topic, but can anyone recommend a nice pair of 10" speakers for my Vibrolux? I have the two K-110s in an HT cabinet, and they sound sweet, but I'd also like to put something in the amp itself that's a little more vintage old school breakup tone, something I could crank up a Telecaster through.

I put 2 Jensen Neo 10s in a 2x10 Fender/Rivera Concert. Very vintagy mojo happening now....
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