Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby modz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:01 am

I forgot to mention this. I mounted the amp to a plate and under the plate is a 2" piece of foam and then the plate is mounted to the rack rails with a metal strip (at all four corners) that is able to move up and down but not left to right, front to back or bottom to top (in case it gets turned upside down). The rack has back rails in it. We ended up having 30 hours to complete this after all of the gear was finally together in one place. Here is the back of the rig. Under the plywood plate is 2" of love. We are way into all ideals and Stu man appreciates it and gives him time to do what he needs to do. Thanks for all of the help and info from everyone here!
His chain is Mutron>oc2>dis+>phase>turbo>delay but Mike W just reminded me that Jerome had the octaver 1st. We made it so effect position is easy to change but this is the only way I could get them all to fit in a 6 space rack.

Image
Tracy Lowe from Festus, MO
http://www.soundscaperproductions.com/
modz
Pigpen
Pigpen
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:38 am
Location: Festus, MO

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby modz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:12 am

This is phase "0" of the setup:) I Tried to keep transformers away from audio signals as much as possible. The only thing I followed from Stu was the rack positions and pedal order. There is one space between amp and pre. This was the only rack we could find and of course 2 hours later a 20 space shock rack shows on craigslist for 200.00????????
Tracy Lowe from Festus, MO
http://www.soundscaperproductions.com/
modz
Pigpen
Pigpen
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:38 am
Location: Festus, MO

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby jdsmodulus » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:37 am

I saw the Case on Craigs list, you should pick that up. It says its in Pt Charles. You wont find one for cheaper than that and it wouldnt take that long to switch racks. I move my stuff around all the time (for fun) and you could do it in a couple of hours if not less. I made a map diagram for all of the inputs for the switch from 16 to 20 spaces.
jdsmodulus
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby modz » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:30 am

The rack is on the bus already:( I wanna grab it up. I loves me some Craigslist. There is also a D120 on it but it has a small tear in the edge. A small tear is the same as a big one to me. Recone!
Tracy Lowe from Festus, MO
http://www.soundscaperproductions.com/
modz
Pigpen
Pigpen
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:38 am
Location: Festus, MO

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby Pete B. » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:54 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: ...It's very Jerry and reminds me how important the guitar itself is.


I love gear as much as the rest of us, but I think "it"'s in the hands.

Case and point number 123-A..., Here's a link to a Jerry guy playing Jerry's actual Wolf with Phil & Friends (BEW and Bertha).
I would not have been able to ID this tone as "Wolf" if I didn't know it was Wolf ahead of time (how 'bout you?).
http://www.hohwband.com/media.html

Anyone have a link to Barry Sless playing Wolf at Red Rocks with P&F?
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:24 pm

Pete B. wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: ...It's very Jerry and reminds me how important the guitar itself is.


I love gear as much as the rest of us, but I think "it"'s in the hands.

Case and point number 123-A..., Here's a link to a Jerry guy playing Jerry's actual Wolf with Phil & Friends (BEW and Bertha).
I would not have been able to ID this tone as "Wolf" if I didn't know it was Wolf ahead of time (how 'bout you?).
http://www.hohwband.com/media.html



this has been beat like a deadhorse. i am sure you mean no malice pete, but i am sure brad fully knows that it's in the hands, or rather his head/ears! BUT, there is a difference in jerry's GEAR, from guitar to guitar and amps to amps and this is not specifically related to jerry, but definately can be any other guitar player. no one would be able to probably tell that was wolf just by listening to that, but in jerry's hands and knowing his playing, you can tell it's not alligator or tiger! those definately had their own character or quality. when it comes down to jerrys tone, 95% of it is in his hands/head, that's a given! but to gearheads, they can also hear that other 5% related to his gear that some cannot in jerry's playing specifically. imo, those that cannot are the first to say it's 100% in his hands or ability. i understood his statement 100%, and for the record, i believe he wasn't talking about wolf being the magical ingrediant to jerry's style of playing, or that 95% part. but a good solid well built INSTRUMENT in general, it is a very important factor to a musician.

sorry for the rant, carry on.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby Pete B. » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:34 pm

No argument from me Man, and fwiw I wasn't directing that at Brad as he and I have heard plenty of guys play similar or even the same Steels/Amps at Steel shows and all sound different.
Just sayin'... that sounds nothing like Wolf to me, but it's Wolf.
imho, There's no 5% about anything gear related that makes Jerry sound better than everyone else.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:50 pm

Yeah, Pete and I have been around this discussion for years now, gear vs' the hands of the picker. This is alive and well in the pedal steel world too.

I just listened to this sample of the guy playing the Wolf. No offense intended, but clearly this guy picks extremely hard and staccato (kills the notes quickly), way, way, way unlike Jerry's gentle and nimble approach. So he'll never the Jerry sound picking the strings like that, even with a guitar that's ready to sound that way. Also it sounds like electronically, the setup wasn't very Jerry either.

The only thing I'd say about the guitars is that they do have tonal differences, and it seems that once Jerry switched from tube power amps to transistor ('72/'73), he also gravitated toward dense, maple-heavy, ebony fretboarded guitars. These types of guitars have a harmonic/time function where the higher end of the frequency spectrum has more sustain or hang-time. These guitars let you pick lighter and get a longer clear note without the aid of tube overdrive. Compare these guitars to an SG or even an ash-bodied Strat, and you can hear it. So the Wolf or Wolf clone should in theory open the possibility of getting a more Jerry like tone from the guitar, but of course again, it's all in how you get the strings vibrating, and that right there is a major part of why Jerry was the king.

Brad
... and it's just like any other day that's ever been...
SarnoMusicSolutions
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby waldo041 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:19 pm

Pete B. wrote:There's no 5% about anything gear related that makes Jerry sound better than everyone else.


i am totally on the same page that jerry is jerry even on a broomstick, and was not referring to him being any better because of his gear. my 5% analogy is in reference to the fact that jerry was jerry in the time he was with us with the 95% from the head/hand, and the other 5% can be heard in the difference in his tone from the 60's to the 70's, and from the 70's to the 80's and from the 80's to the 90's. that part of his tone cannot be denied, his gear contributed at least this small percentage to what he delivered.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby jdsmodulus » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:11 pm

Pete B. wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: ...It's very Jerry and reminds me how important the guitar itself is.


I love gear as much as the rest of us, but I think "it"'s in the hands.

Case and point number 123-A..., Here's a link to a Jerry guy playing Jerry's actual Wolf with Phil & Friends (BEW and Bertha).
I would not have been able to ID this tone as "Wolf" if I didn't know it was Wolf ahead of time (how 'bout you?).
http://www.hohwband.com/media.html

Anyone have a link to Barry Sless playing Wolf at Red Rocks with P&F?

I was at this show, chomping at the bit, we had stage passes and had dinner with the band. Barry is a great guy and all but shit did I want to play! There is youtube of this performance.
jdsmodulus
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby playingdead » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:21 pm

waldo041 wrote:i am totally on the same page that jerry is jerry even on a broomstick, and was not referring to him being any better because of his gear. my 5% analogy is in reference to the fact that jerry was jerry in the time he was with us with the 95% from the head/hand, and the other 5% can be heard in the difference in his tone from the 60's to the 70's, and from the 70's to the 80's and from the 80's to the 90's. that part of his tone cannot be denied, his gear contributed at least this small percentage to what he delivered.


I'd put it at more than 5 percent; Jerry is Jerry, and every note was unique, and instantly recognizable, but you can pick your eras and hear big difference from the guitars and the gear. 77-78 Wolf is very different from 79-81 Tiger, then 82 is fairly unique in its own right for the very clear bell-like tone, around 84 or 85 there was a lot more breakup in the basic signal, and then the thinner tone when the Trio showed up and, ultimately, eventually the JBLs went away for that brittle piezo-y sound.

In fact, here are some intros from Browneyed Women. I could mix these up and make you guess, but almost anyone who really studies Jerry's tone through the years would be easily able to tell which is which, in order, 1978 (Wolf), 1980 (Tiger with Dual Sounds), 1982 (Tiger with Super IIs), 1985, 1991, 1995.

http://www.playingdead.net/bews.mp3

And, FWIW, I think Stu with the SMS and John's Wolf really knocks that 77-78 tone. When I tried the SMS, I immediately thought it sounded exactly like that era with my guitar, too. It's uncanny, right down to the way the reverb sounds and the way the high end responds and rings.

For us mere mortals, the guitar's construction itself also makes a noticeable difference; when my Tiger was being repaired this summer, I played my 85 Strat (Super IIs, CB-1 buffer) at at least a dozen gigs, all recorded direct, then when the Tiger came back this winter,but you can hear there was a lot more meat and weight to the tone. That's from an alder bolt on to the cocobolo-maple set neck instrument, a 7 pound guitar to a 12 pounder. Some folks may not agree with my digital direct setup, but what it does accomplish is removing any variables from the recordings (room acoustics, stage volume, how the amp is mic'd, and so forth), so it's a pretty good way to judge the guitars against themselves, with the same player, technique, pick, etc.
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1718
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby jdsmodulus » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:36 pm

I think its safe to say that Jerry was really in a different league than any of us and leave it at that. Searching for the sound is what Im all about but putting a % on it is really like chasing the dragon. Lets start a new thread about this subject and give Stu his props that he is due! Right?
jdsmodulus
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 pm

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby Pete B. » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:28 pm

Hey I was mainly hoping to hear a half dozen or so guys playing basically the same guitar or close copy (and let the Tone cards fall where they may... no Dead Horse here, although it might make a good band name :cool: )... Jerry, Barrly Sless, the HOHW guy, I believe Scott Law has played Wolf with P&F, not sure if he took a solo but I heard Ryan Adams played that axe too... and tie it in with Stu on the Wolf copy.

I'm still looking for links to other guys who have played Wolf if anyone has them.
This is all "just for the fun of it" but I predict that the Tone is in the hands thing is not a Dead Horse in any way, as seen by the drastic tonal change already noted. As Brad said, no disrespect intended but the HOHW clips sound nothing like what is being describing as the Wolf's "inherent timbre".

Melvin Seals is playing here Thursday night at The Goodfoot Lounge with Cast Of Clowns! Any Jerry guy to see???
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby mijknahs » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:13 pm

I know the rig plays a huge part of the tone as well. I've played my "Tiger-like" guitar through other amps and it sounded horribly bright and thin sounding (even with messing with the controls). So, if they're not playing Wolf through a rig similar to Jerry's, it may have adverse effects.

Jim
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Stu Allen's rig/tone and JGB

Postby waldo041 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:09 pm

Pete B. wrote: As Brad said, no disrespect intended but the HOHW clips sound nothing like what is being describing as the Wolf's "inherent timbre".



your not really going to be able to hear that "inherent timbre" that way! the source is jerry, and the guitars you place in hands. not the guitar and place it in other guitarist hands. sure some may get close but none are jerry. and almost all of them, with the exception of stu's upcoming run, were not as close to the rig behind the hands and guitar anyway.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

PreviousNext

Return to Jerry Tone

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: joeriz and 3 guests