correct chord

[mttourpro]

So I'm at rehersal last night and am told that after several listenings our guitar player believes that we've been playing an incorrect chord forever. Thought I'd see what others here think.

A D A
Sugar magnolia, blossoms blooming,
A G E A
heads all empty and I don't care.
A C#m F#m
Saw my baby down by the river,
E D A E A
Knew she'd have to come up soon for air.

He says the F#m is really an F# Major. We played it that way and it sounds wierd but somehow I think he's correct. What say you??

[Pete B.]

This should be pretty easy to prove with video evidence.
I had the same thing come up with Cumberland, and pretty much every Dead Head on the internet disagreed with me untill a vid of the boys showed them playing it that way over the word (A-way-ay-ay-ay).

[bodiddley]

I've always played it F#m, but I'm just going by that GD instruction vid.

[Tennessee Jedi]

I do a riff and dont fret a full chord -so no prob- let the bass worry about the tonality or whatever its called ... or the keys .... oops thats you

[mttourpro]

Yeah, every band I've ever played in used F# minor. He ackowldges there's nothing anywhere to say different in any songbook, internet site, ect. Looking at a video would be the key, but I wouldn't know one chord from another looking at a video of someone playing guitar.

[strumminsix]

F#m is my vote. This is one of the songs I watched Bobby play (tapes/VCD/DVD) where I learned his 4th fret trick of being able to play: E, C#m, F#m and B all without unbarring allowing for a smooth almost capo'd sound.

Now he may have used a lazy pinky or not strummed the 3rd semitone but his position was for a F#m.

Also, in doing so, if it was an F# it'd have that box sound like Touch O'Grey or Rueben & Cherise or Liberty and the song does not have that at all.

[jefkahn]

This is one of the songs I watched Bobby play (tapes/VCD/DVD) where I learned his 4th fret trick of being able to play: E, C#m, F#m and B all without unbarring allowing for a smooth almost capo'd sound.

Don't keep us in suspense...what's his trick? Is he barring his index finger on the fourth fret and playing the C-shape for E, the A-minor shape for C#m, and the A shape for B? Then what's he doing for F#m? Just hitting the A and D strings?

[Rusty the Scoob]

F#m makes a lot more sense. I haven't analyzed the key or mode but whatever it is definitely has an A in it rather than an A#, and it's not resolving to B so it's not a secondary dominant.

And don't look to me to establish major or minor in those one or two beats! You'll get the root, nothing but the root, and like it.

[mttourpro]

I appreciate the input. I also hear the F# minor but I need to listen to a couple of clean versions when I get home.... I'll say he has a very good ear and is often correct about stuff like this.
I just sent him a link to this thread so maybe he'll chime in....now, where's the good videos of Brent playing it?

[strumminsix]

This is one of the songs I watched Bobby play (tapes/VCD/DVD) where I learned his 4th fret trick of being able to play: E, C#m, F#m and B all without unbarring allowing for a smooth almost capo'd sound.

Don't keep us in suspense...what's his trick? Is he barring his index finger on the fourth fret and playing the C-shape for E, the A-minor shape for C#m, and the A shape for B? Then what's he doing for F#m? Just hitting the A and D strings?

Sorry, Jeff, I've mentioned this a few times but forget not everyone here today was around then.

Close, barre the 4th fret.
C shape for the E
Am shape for the C#m
Dm shape for the F#m
G shape for the B

It's useful in many GD tunes like: LL Rain, BT Wind, Deal, BE Women, etc...

[pappypgh]

I'm the one adament about it being an F#, not minor.

I've listened to about 15 different versions from the 80s & 90s. Jerry, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, hits a major F# chord.

As Tourpro said, I can't provide you with one written shred of proof. But I hear it. If anyone has a video and you can see Jerry's hands at that spot, post it!

It doesn't make musical sense, as the song is in A and the relative minor is F#, I get it. There are many other instances in Grateful-Deaddom that don't make musical sense, either.

[strumminsix]

I'm the one adament about it being an F#, not minor.

I've listened to about 15 different versions from the 80s & 90s. Jerry, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, hits a major F# chord.

As Tourpro said, I can't provide you with one written shred of proof. But I hear it. If anyone has a video and you can see Jerry's hands at that spot, post it!

It doesn't make musical sense, as the song is in A and the relative minor is F#, I get it. There are many other instances in Grateful-Deaddom that don't make musical sense, either.

Full chord or hits the single note major 3rd?

I agree the GD break the rules with songs like Touch, Rueben, etc. But this song does not have that boxed chords sound - which is from that odd resolution which in this case would be A# note of the Fmaj and the A chord.

[pappypgh]

I'm the one adament about it being an F#, not minor.

I've listened to about 15 different versions from the 80s & 90s. Jerry, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, hits a major F# chord.

As Tourpro said, I can't provide you with one written shred of proof. But I hear it. If anyone has a video and you can see Jerry's hands at that spot, post it!

It doesn't make musical sense, as the song is in A and the relative minor is F#, I get it. There are many other instances in Grateful-Deaddom that don't make musical sense, either.

Full chord or hits the single note major 3rd?

I agree the GD break the rules with songs like Touch, Rueben, etc. But this song does not have that boxed chords sound - which is from that odd resolution which in this case would be A# note of the Fmaj and the A chord.

I'm hearing the major 3rd outta Jerry....full out. It is odd from that resolution - but do it about 10 times in a row. It starts to sound just like Jerry

[Pete B.]

Always a fun listen:
The Story of "Sugar Magnolia" by The Grateful Dead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlANNjLnaVM

[Tennessee Jedi]

Welcome back Pappy