Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

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Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby mijknahs » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:09 am

Wouldn't that be cool to just have one coil from a Super 2? That's really all I use anyway. I don't really like the sound of it in series. I'm talking about the middle pickup here. Why have a humbucker that you only use half of anyways?

Does anyone know what would be the closest sounding single coil (drop in replacement in a Strat for example) to a coil tapped DiMarzio Super 2?

Thanks,
Jim
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby playingdead » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:47 am

Bedeke checked it out recently:

bcresci wrote:I decided to email Dimarzio and put it to them. They didn't realize Jerry was running the Super 2 in split coil - initially they pointed me towards the SDS1 - but after I referred them to Dozin.com we go that sorted out. Their recommendation was the Evolution ISCV2 - used by Steve Vai in the middle position of his Jem series.

"A Super 2 in split mode is very bright. The closest single-coil in terms of sound and output level is the ISCV2."
Dimarzio Tech Support, 2010


But I called them during the spring, and they told me a Cruiser or Fast Track would be the closest.

That being said, would it be possible to take a Super II and disassemble it and put it into a single coil housing?
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby RiverRat » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:17 am

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Last edited by RiverRat on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:08 am

I think the only way to get there with a single is with an SDS-1 because it's the only one in that single coil series that appears to have the same pole pieces and ceramic magnets and I'm guessing the same gauge wire or at least close. But a stock SDS-1 is wound too high and doesn't have the right treble response. It's a bit too dark. So I bet if you take an SDS-1 and unwind it from the stock 9.4k ohms DC resistance to maybe down around 5k, you may get pretty close to a Super II's single coil. If you keep it higher around 6 or 7k, then maybe closer to a Dual Sound's single coil. You'll probably never match it exactly because the whole magnetic field is different, but you should get pretty close.

I took a Dual Sound and unwound a coil to bring the DCR down somewhere right between the Dual Sound and Super II. It sounds pretty cool.

Brad
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby mijknahs » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:11 pm

Nice. Thanks guys.

I do have an SDS-1 laying around so I will probably experiment with unwinding that. I literally only use the middle Super 2 as a single coil 100% of the time. The bridge I'll switch back and forth but the middle is single coil only.

If I ever get another custom guitar (boy, those Scott Walkers sure are sweet...) there's no reason to have a humbucker in the middle (unless the only way to get that sound is with a Super 2). I always thought the H-S-H config looks nice. It would look great on a Walker Special.

Jim
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby playingdead » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:29 pm

That's exactly my dilemma with my Walker Special. I don't want three humbuckers.
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby waldo041 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:50 pm

i would have to say that jerry for the most part, as he stated, always used the middle pickup in single coil mode. he may have had a part or song that he would use the others obviously, like the bridge pickup in a portion of throwing stones(dead ahead video). but like his tone controls which were almost a useless function, they were setup for and used when he was using the effects. like giving the phase 100 a humbucker vs. a single coil, or using the extreme low side of the tone control when using the distortion plus. he has stated in almost all i have read on this subject that the key to it was to have the tones seperated from each other. to add different colors. so yes most will find the middle in single coil, or just a single coil in the middle, is ALL jerry. he did things purposely, and those humbuckers and tone control capacitor and resistance values were all selected and used for a reason.

your mileage may vary, but look for those spots in some of those jams and you'll hear a humbucker kick in, or when he rolls the tone control all the way down. it's there, and i totally understand the everyday uselessness of some it, but jerry did use it.

that said, even though there was always the rumor jerry was using a piezo in bolt or tophat, this was untrue. but i do believe he was going to being adding one more thing to his palette of regular guitar/midi guitar setup he last used. there is a bolt schematic floating around that shows just how he was going to employ the new technology of that day and that was some piezo bridge saddles added to that guitar/midi setup. how or if he would have went that route, we will never know, but there is evidence he or his gurus were looking into that setup, and even had custom piezo saddles made and a schematic drawn up.

point is, jerry was always looking for more color he could squeeze into a guitar, and although he did the mjority of the time use the middle single coil, he was all over having as much other colors at his disposal for use when ever he wanted/needed them.

peace,
waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby mijknahs » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:45 pm

I also thought about using a switch instead of a pot for a tone control so you can go from off to full on (no inbetween). I use the tone control with distortion for that horn effect (like Jerry) and never use it partially rolled off. It's either turned all the way up or all the way down. A mini toggle switch would be more efficient.

Jim
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:23 pm

I'd been thinking lately that Jerry may have actually used the tone control quite a bit on the middle single coil Super II at times. There's some 80's and '90's JGB stuff where it seems kind of dark on top, but just slightly darker than full bright.


Brad
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby mijknahs » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:50 pm

I'm just saying in the last 15 years I have not had the need to roll the tone part way off on the middle pickup. I either have it all the way up or all the way off. Now, the bridge tone control I do use to tame the brightness sometimes but never use the middle tone that way.

Jim
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby waldo041 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:55 pm

mijknahs wrote:I also thought about using a switch instead of a pot for a tone control so you can go from off to full on (no inbetween). I use the tone control with distortion for that horn effect (like Jerry) and never use it partially rolled off. It's either turned all the way up or all the way down. A mini toggle switch would be more efficient.

Jim



in the GP 88 interview he talks about how he uses them and the resonance boost he gets(hollow-horn effect) as being either all the way on or all the way off. for each pickup and that provided him 6 different tones. but.....

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:I'd been thinking lately that Jerry may have actually used the tone control quite a bit on the middle single coil Super II at times. There's some 80's and '90's JGB stuff where it seems kind of dark on top, but just slightly darker than full bright.


he does also say that they do cut the tops slightly and that they do something to the midrange and that he custom selects the pots and caps to do that as well as the resonance boost.

he goes on to state that most of the time the tone knobs are useless but in this case it really does change the tone.

i often wonder if the JGB was jerry's test vehicle for different pickups from time to time. we know he tried different ones out, and the JGB could have been where the experiments would go more unnoticed if things weren't just right. just a thought though.

this all said, when your running with most stock amplifiers you won't hear these differences as much. a properly tapped twin(ab763) or an sms classic really make the tone controls way more useful and you can begin to understand just what he is talking about. with a tube power section, the subtleties of the tone controls can get lost, and i have totally witnessed that long ago. and i know people have argued the usefullness of the tone controls before, but the more clarity the proper taps and clean power a solid state power section can give you, really do bring these characters jerry described out.

peace,
waldo
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby waldo041 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:01 am

mijknahs wrote:I'm just saying in the last 15 years I have not had the need to roll the tone part way off on the middle pickup. I either have it all the way up or all the way off. Now, the bridge tone control I do use to tame the brightness sometimes but never use the middle tone that way.

Jim



and jerry could have been doing the exact same thing as he does not go into specifics on each individual pickup, only that all he described was available on all three pickups. and that was what he purposely searched for in his caps and pot resistance.

peace,
waldo
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:55 am

Just a side note, but when a tone pot is at zero, it's as if the pot is totally gone and the tone cap is completing the circuit from pickup to ground thru the cap. In this condition, the inductive coil sees a direct capacitive path to ground. In this case, the resonant peak of the pickup is shifted to a lower frequency. That's the horn effect. As soon as you put a little resistance in the path to the cap (turn the tone knob above zero or 1) then the tone circuit is simply attenuating highs. It's the cap-only path to ground that causes the horn effect, and that simply is the shift of the pickup's resonant peak from normal down to a lower frequency. And that frequency is partially determined by the value of the cap. Jerry seemed to like the fairly common .02uF with these pickups to attain that particular horn sound.

Brad
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby USBLUES » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:01 pm

I just wanted to ask a question that about what Waldo said. With all 3 humbuckers and 5-way selector and coil switches on Jerry's guitars, He primarily used the middle pickup in single coil mode? This would be sorta like using the middle pickup on a stock strat?
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Re: Closest single coil to a coil tapped Super 2?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:17 pm

Yes,

very much like the middle position on a Strat, which he also did quite a bit when playing a Strat.


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