JGB riffs and scales

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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby mttourpro » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:07 pm

Best keys for keys are, in my order of preference

G C A E D F Bb B then it doesn't matter cause they're all pretty rough.
The best part is most of us guys have a magic transposition button to fix that nasty difficult intonation problem. I especially use it on one original song we do written in G# minor.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby charliehornsby » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:24 pm

i'm always looking for great jam piano players. obviously, bruce to me, is the best, if you guys have any youtube clips or articles or recordings you recommend, please let me know. i try to listen to as much as i can, studying those who are better than me.

thanks,

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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby mttourpro » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:52 pm

Pianists/keyboardists that I think are most worthy of learning from/directly stealing from when trying to play "jam-band music" (whatever that really means) are

Brent
Billy Payne (Little Feat)
T Lavitz (Dixie Dregs)
Chuck Lovell (ABB/Stones)
Page McConnell (Phish)
WSP's key guy (JB?)
Any of zappa's key's from 73-88 (George Duke, Alan Zavod, Tommy Mars are good starts)
Billy Preston
Billy Powell (Skynard)
Ray Manzerek (Doors)
Steve Molitz (Phil/Particle)
String Cheese Incident's guy
Rob Barraco (Zen Tricksters/Phil et al)


Of course there's many I left out but there's a few to start with.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby charliehornsby » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:11 pm

so i have a gig coming up. we're doing the following songs...
i was wondering if i could get some feedback from you guys as far as appropriate scales to use for solos.

Bertha (in C) C pentatonic, C mixo, C Blues
Tangled up in Blue (in A) A diatonic? just playing the chord tones? (A, G)
Up on Cripple Creek (in A) A diatonic
Masterpiece (in G) G mixo, G blues
Maggies Farm (in A; i know the Dead does it in G) A blues.
Franklins Tower (A) A blues
Sympathy for Devil (in E) E blues

still not sure what the mixo mode is, i think just flat 7 right?

looking for guidance here as to how to open it up.

thank you!

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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby myoung6923 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:20 pm

Bertha (in C) in c? not in G like the dead did it? - if so then C mixolydian - if in G then G mioxo

Tangled up in Blue (in A) A Mixolydian
Up on Cripple Creek (in A)
Masterpiece (in G) G mixolydian
Maggies Farm (in A; i know the Dead does it in G) A blues - pentatonic
Franklins Tower (A) A mixolydian
Sympathy for Devil (in E)

Yes mixolydian is just a flat 7
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby aiq » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:31 am

My $.02.

In my old age I'm trying to simplify. To achieve a mixo sound just think up a fourth and resolve to chord/key tones. Let your ear do the thinking.

C chord (any major tonality)? Play Fmaj and resolve to C's, G's, or D's (for the Mu coolness). Or whatever tone you like.

Plus, all modes are just a major scale...play that scale and again ear is the boss.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby Pete B. » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:12 pm

charliehornsby wrote:this is great! thank you. i'm going to shed on this tonight. i have a jam tomorrow. i'm sure i'll come back with more questions. thank you so much. it would be kind of nice to have an open discussion here about approaches to different songs. i'm going to sit down with some songs tonight and make some notes.

again, i can't thank you for your time. this has been hugely helpful. thank you!


fwiw, There is a "Introduction to Modes" here that uses a keyboard to demonstrate some basics (it's mainly a guitar page though):
http://www.highcountryguitar.com/modes_intro.htm
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby jackr » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:02 pm

Pete, that is a fantastic link, thanks!
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby gr8fullfred » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:52 am

My experience shows me that much of Jerry's single note soloing is in mixolydian mode. FOTM (B mixolydian) Eyes and Jackstraw (E mixolydian) are prime examples. For me the trick is to hit the flattened 7th (the note A in Bmix) when the chords transition to the A chord. In other words hit the A note on the A chord. Avoid the A note on the B chord. During the B chord, you can play Bmajor scale, or the rest of the B mixolydian (not the A note). Again hit the A note on the A chord.

For eyes you are in E mixolydian, hit the D note on the B minor. (again D is the flattened 7th of Emajor scale). If you get the hang of this, it immediately sounds Jerryish.

For FOTM, turn on the envelope filter with a little delay, play B mixolydian and you are getting in the Jerryish zone.
My one big tip for Jerryish sounds = Mixolydian Mode
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby Billbbill » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:36 am

gr8fullfred wrote:For eyes you are in E mixolydian, hit the D note on the B minor. (again D is the flattened 7th of Emajor scale).


If you haven't, try E Ionian over the Emaj7 and E mixolydian (B Dorian) over the Bm. The Mixo has the D (flatted 7th) as you note but you can't forget the Eb note over the E maj7! More 'jerryish' if you ask me...though you didn't :smile:

I'll also throw in some B maj pentatonic over the Emaj7 and B minor pentatonic over the Bm.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:01 am

Maybe i missunderstood that post but...
fwiw/imho, I don't think it's a good idea to tell someone who is new to scales/modes that Eyes is in E Mixolyidian.
I would describe the Emaj7 jam as E-Ionian (Intro/outro jams), and the Bm section (of the EMaj7/Bm jam) as B-Dorian.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby Mick » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:08 am

gr8fullfred wrote:My experience shows me that much of Jerry's single note soloing is in mixolydian mode. FOTM (B mixolydian) Eyes and Jackstraw (E mixolydian) are prime examples. For me the trick is to hit the flattened 7th (the note A in Bmix) when the chords transition to the A chord. In other words hit the A note on the A chord. Avoid the A note on the B chord. During the B chord, you can play Bmajor scale, or the rest of the B mixolydian (not the A note). Again hit the A note on the A chord.


This is more or less the way I think about it. The song is written in B major, but playing the inside 7th degree (A#) over the A chord doesn't sound good. It doesn't matter during the verses because the entire melody is on the scale degrees one through five, so no dissonance with the ryhthm is created directly, although the A chord gives the whole song a dominant feel IMO.

For FOTM, turn on the envelope filter with a little delay, play B mixolydian and you are getting in the Jerryish zone.
My one big tip for Jerryish sounds = Mixolydian Mode


This seems like it shouldn't work, because B mixo is going to use a natural A which is outside the key, but generally it does sound good and right as long as the solo resolves back to the B major chord. I think this is because half of the rhythm of the song is using the same outside note, so there is a lot of support for playing the flatted 7th and making its sound like it blends in. Some people think of this whole song as being in E major, viewing the A and B chords as the IV and V chords of the key. I don't think that is necessarily bad or "wrong", but it makes my brain work harder to keep track of the melody. In B major, the melody in scale degrees is:

Long distance runner, what you standin' there for 34355 314432

But in E major, it becomes: 71722 751176

Maybe to some folks, that doesn't make any difference, but I find it easier from the B major view.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:36 pm

Mick wrote:
For FOTM, turn on the envelope filter with a little delay, play B mixolydian and you are getting in the Jerryish zone.
My one big tip for Jerryish sounds = Mixolydian Mode


This seems like it shouldn't work, because B mixo is going to use a natural A which is outside the key, but generally it does sound good and right as long as the solo resolves back to the B major chord.


How can A natural be "outside the key" if the two chords in the song are B maj and A maj ?
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Re: JGB riffs and scales Mixolydian

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:47 pm

Pete B. wrote:Maybe i missunderstood that post but...
fwiw/imho, I don't think it's a good idea to tell someone who is new to scales/modes that Eyes is in E Mixolyidian.
I would describe the Emaj7 jam as E-Ionian (Intro/outro jams), and the Bm section (of the EMaj7/Bm jam) as B-Dorian.


+1, Eyes is not an E mixo song; leads are mainly E ionian, and only over the Bm parts does it slip into E mixo, which is probably easier to perceive as B dorian.
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Re: JGB riffs and scales

Postby jahozer » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:54 am

I thought I posted yesterday, but something must have happened.
Fire On The Mountain is in E major, not B major.
You can play B mixo since it starts with B, but it is most certainly in E major. The riff at the end is modal and uses B and A tone centers.
For eyes,
I (and Im pretty sure Jerry) "play through the chords" playing E maj on the E, b minor (or b dorian, which I suppose is like E mixo) on the Bm and A major on the A.
You need to do this to acount for the major 7. If I saw the chords E, bm and A, I would say its in A as a V-II-I, but this is an example of changing keys to play through the chords.
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