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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby myoung6923 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:20 pm

Well - it's maybe a good idea and perfectly fine for splitting a crowd in half - neither of us will do as well as if we had booked them further apart. Don't forget - we aren't talking about playing a week apart in the same city or town - but a week apart at the same bar.

And - he talked about not going for Tammany because we played there - and that he had "deference" for fellow musicians - no?
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby mikepand » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:26 pm

yeah, we were talking about how it was happening the same night or weekend. I dunno about a week, that's a stretch.

Same club tho? That's a booking agent/Club owner decision.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby jester536 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:41 am

I guess I'm just jealous that you guys can even have this discussion. I'm in Montana...I don't imagine I'll ever be able to find guys of the quality you guys are working with...and even if I could...I don't think we'd get many people to come out to see us. There are DeadHeads out here but let's face it...there ain't a whole lot of anything out here. Got a good wekend planned of jamming with my brothers...3 hacks who have been deadheads since the mid-70's...it should be nice.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby RiverRat » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:39 am

Image

THIS IS FAIL... TEH FAIL IS NOT GOOD!


THIS IS WIN!!! Go Win, Go!!!

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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby mikepand » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:57 am

Well put Raymond. Well put.

:hail:
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby playingdead » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:34 am

myoung6923 wrote:Is that why you guys booked a gig the week before us at Tammany in January? What happened there? Talk about splitting the crowd...



myoung6923 wrote:Well - it's maybe a good idea and perfectly fine for splitting a crowd in half - neither of us will do as well as if we had booked them further apart. Don't forget - we aren't talking about playing a week apart in the same city or town - but a week apart at the same bar.

And - he talked about not going for Tammany because we played there - and that he had "deference" for fellow musicians - no?


It's actually a surprise to me. And I agree that it's bad timing.

However, just for starters, the promoter who books Tammany has been asking us for months to return there, so we accepted the date he offered a couple of weeks ago. So, if there's a beef about the timing of the date, it should be taken up with the promoter, because although I don't actually book Playing Dead myself any more, I seriously doubt the person who does would have checked another band's schedule to see when you might be playing there again. It certainly would not be the smartest strategy in the world to ask for a date a week before or after another band with similar material plays there. One would logically assume the club itself would be aware of its own schedule. FWIW, we were also offered the following weekend there.

I would also point out that this particular club booked us to play the 2009 weekend the Dead were in Worcester (well before you started playing there), and subsequently had your band playing a few nights before and after that gig, so this is nothing new at this venue.

And in response to the "deference" quote, I would point out that Playing Dead did its first gig at Tammany back in 2002, has a relationship with that particular promoter dating back to 2004, and had done weekend shows there before you began playing there, so while we have turned down some dates there in recent months (after you started booking there), it's not as if we're horning our way into some club we've never played before that another band is playing, quite the opposite.

The same was true at the club in Waltham, where we had played a number of times before the other band booked it; in that instance, it was booked the same night we played in Boston and DSO played in Hampton, which was the source of the original thread (which was not started by me but by Ray). (Apologies were made over that oversight, and appreciated.) Playing Dead has also headlined at Doc's in Milford, where your band is booked on a three-band bill on NYE (while we are headlining on NYE at another club), been booked on the main stage at a local festival after which you folks got booked on one of the smaller stages (and took our name off your gig announcement's list of bands at the festival posted on various forums and sent via email, which did not go unnoticed by people who see both bands), twice rescheduled our own dates on the South Shore when your band booked conflicting dates a town over, etc. I think we've quietly gone out of our way not to conflict with other gigs, and have not raised a fuss when things have happened, even suggested people contact you when they offer private dates that we can't play, but it doesn't seem appropriate to me to be called out on a public forum of peers when it's the club who offered dates to both bands a week apart with neither band being aware of it.

A friendly PM would have been more appropriate, as well as an email to the promoter to try and adjust the dates.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:13 am

I'd say that if anything, the band that plays the weekend after slightly benefits from having a "warm up" band play the week before: Heads (or newbies) come out to the 1st show, have a GREAT time, see the upcoming show posters, and say "Look honey, another Grateful Dead band plays here NEXT Sat! I guess we know what we're doing next weekend..." :smile:
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby hogan » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:39 am

playingdead wrote:It's actually a surprise to me. And I agree that it's bad timing.

However, just for starters, the promoter who books Tammany has been asking us for months to return there, so we accepted the date he offered a couple of weeks ago. So, if there's a beef about the timing of the date, it should be taken up with the promoter, because although I don't actually book Playing Dead myself any more, I seriously doubt the person who does would have checked another band's schedule to see when you might be playing there again. It certainly would not be the smartest strategy in the world to ask for a date a week before or after another band with similar material plays there. One would logically assume the club itself would be aware of its own schedule. FWIW, we were also offered the following weekend there.

I would also point out that this particular club booked us to play the 2009 weekend the Dead were in Worcester (well before you started playing there), and subsequently had your band playing a few nights before and after that gig, so this is nothing new at this venue.

And in response to the "deference" quote, I would point out that Playing Dead did its first gig at Tammany back in 2002, has a relationship with that particular promoter dating back to 2004, and had done weekend shows there before you began playing there, so while we have turned down some dates there in recent months (after you started booking there), it's not as if we're horning our way into some club we've never played before that another band is playing, quite the opposite.

The same was true at the club in Waltham, where we had played a number of times before the other band booked it; in that instance, it was booked the same night we played in Boston and DSO played in Hampton, which was the source of the original thread (which was not started by me but by Ray). (Apologies were made over that oversight, and appreciated.) Playing Dead has also headlined at Doc's in Milford, where your band is booked on a three-band bill on NYE (while we are headlining on NYE at another club), been booked on the main stage at a local festival after which you folks got booked on one of the smaller stages (and took our name off your gig announcement's list of bands at the festival posted on various forums and sent via email, which did not go unnoticed by people who see both bands), twice rescheduled our own dates on the South Shore when your band booked conflicting dates a town over, etc. I think we've quietly gone out of our way not to conflict with other gigs, and have not raised a fuss when things have happened, even suggested people contact you when they offer private dates that we can't play, but it doesn't seem appropriate to me to be called out on a public forum of peers when it's the club who offered dates to both bands a week apart with neither band being aware of it.

A friendly PM would have been more appropriate, as well as an email to the promoter to try and adjust the dates.


End.Of.Story.
I've got no dog in this fight but complaining about other bands scheduling is kind of soft. While i'm sure it's not one band's goal to put anyone else's band out of business, it's certainly not their job to keep them in business. Simple solution: practice, get good, book your gigs where they will have you and let the rest take care of itself. If your band can play, people will show up.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby playingdead » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:55 am

As it turns out, unbeknownst to us, our promoter isn't booking there exclusively anymore as of the summer, so he wasn't aware of their date, either. However, since he is not the club's agent, he can't change the date he offered us.

Whatever, again, this should have been addressed privately. It's of no interest to anyone here.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby mikepand » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:55 am

I think it's funny that the guy who booked his band 30 miles from me on the same night on I believe 11/15/08 and then 10 miles from me on 2/7/09 is crying foul on anything related to this. You booked weeks.... if not months after we did.....your ex-band whom you surely check up on. And you have clearly muscled yourself into places Vic already has played successfully. Boo fuckin hoo. Hypocrisy at it's finest. What an absolute joke. And I don't mean the funny haha kind.

A knife in the back.....and more of the same.....................Same ole'..................
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:02 pm

Vic - earlier in the thread you made a big point of saying that you were staying out of the Cape and Western Ma - possibly with an implication that everyone else should stay out of Boston? - and then here you are in western MA.

Then you try to say that you have some claim over the Skellig because you played there 3 times in 2004? And then booked a club that we've played 30+ times just in 2009.

All's fair as far as I'm concerned and I have NO problem with anyone involved, but you can't have it both ways.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby playingdead » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:31 pm

Like I said earlier, this is not the correct forum for these types of discussions. Or for a general pissing match. Let's take it offline.

(Irregardless, the dates we played at the Skellig were throughout 2007, actually, and we were still trying sporadically to get into the room again until you booked there. It's a moot point.)
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:58 pm

There you go again - you type half a novel twice and then say it's not the proper forum to have a discussion.

I don't do pissing matches and even if did I don't want one with you - I just wanted to add some balance into this public thread since it was started because of my personal screw-up in the first place. :lol:


As for the Skellig - why? I barely care if we get back in there and it's a mile and half from my house. :lol: That place is an echo chamber that's miserable to play bass in and their core crowd wants to hear Journey covers. I only booked it in the first place because I go there fairly often as a patron.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby Harvestwind » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:58 pm

I understand the problem, and it's a bummer for the local bands who are trying to work regularly. Having said though, I wish that just once The Dead, Further, Ratdog, Phil and Friends, DSO or any Dead related band would tour Australia. None have ever done so and the market is totally untapped. There are plenty of Deadheads and fellow travellers who relish a chance to see the guys in action.
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Re: Oversaturation of the Boston Music Market

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:05 pm

Harvestwind wrote:I understand the problem, and it's a bummer for the local bands who are trying to work regularly. Having said though, I wish that just once The Dead, Further, Ratdog, Phil and Friends, DSO or any Dead related band would tour Australia. None have ever done so and the market is totally untapped. There are plenty of Deadheads and fellow travellers who relish a chance to see the guys in action.



Start a Dead band, man! It's by far the most fun thing you'll ever do. We bump into each other here and there in Boston but nobody is hurting for work, and it is unbelievably fun! I can only imagine what a blast it'd be to play for Aussie hippies. :cool:
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