Alligator timeline

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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:47 pm

b weird wrote:It seems to me Gator was raped, the knobs on the "glamour" photo are standard Strat knobs and the pickup covers are too white/new looking.



On one of the the scale, we have Phil dumping $30,000 into the electronics for Big Brown.

On the other end, Jerry and the guys ripping pots out of one guitar for another.
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby waldo041 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:57 pm

RiverRat wrote: It seems that the V4 bridge was more than a quick fix repair and rather a carefully thought out upgrade.

Trips Festival 1966 Longshoreman's Hall was where Graham met Garcia... and attempted to fix the bridge on his guitar. that is the commonly held belief... That's from Dennis McNally.


well, there you have that, i had the story wrong, but never said it was quick fix repair. what i was hypothesising was the possiblity that the first bridge mod didn't have a blocked bridge, and the second modded bridge was fully blocked. either way, i agree it's definately thought out~!

on another note, that early 74 wolf picture and the 4 knob wolf show wolf, V1, has the tailpiece raised with wood with No rout underneath for the string ball ends. the pearl or whatever underneath is not there either. the bridge is an alembic like gators V4.

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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:34 pm

tigerstrat wrote:
RiverRat wrote:In the Grateful Dead Taping Compendium Vol 1, there are 2 photos that are supposed to be from 3/24/71 Fillmore West. 1 shows the back view of a headstock that is probably the Irwin Eagle,


Not familiar with those shots, but if you own or have access to the book, is there any chance that back view might be of the Guild S100 (as seen at Duke U. 4/24/71)?


It turns out the guitar was one of the Alembic Peanut guitars, the headstock looks just like the S100 though.
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby b weird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:47 am

The Dead 6-21-1971 Chateau d'HerouvilIe - Herouville, France

You can get a good look at Gator at the very end of the clip when you see Jerry from the front for the first time. As you can see the pickguard hadn't broken yet.

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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby b weird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:05 am

At the end of I Know You Rider you can see a really good shot of Gator also from the 6-21-71 France show.

http://www.livestream.com/davidaron/ond ... ctheight=3
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:11 am

waldo041 wrote:
RiverRat wrote:well, there you have that, i had the story wrong, but never said it was quick fix repair. what i was hypothesising was the possiblity that the first bridge mod didn't have a blocked bridge, and the second modded bridge was fully blocked. either way, i agree it's definately thought out~!


I had made the leap about the quick fix and didn't mean to imply you thought it was... I think you may be right about this bridge not being blocked... I believe that the 2 clamps are meant to work with, or replace, the tremolo springs in holding the tailpiece assembly down... I cannot for life of me make out how it anchored to the body near the bridge...

I believ it was the metal bushings for the height adjustment screws for this bridge that led to the shape and size of the wood overlay for the V4 Gator bridge... part of it was to hide the holes from the previous bridge mods...

here's a photo of V2 Gator...
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b weird wrote:The Dead 6-21-1971 Chateau d'HerouvilIe - Herouville, France

You can get a good look at Gator at the very end of the clip when you see Jerry from the front for the first time. As you can see the pickguard hadn't broken yet.


Great find... the black skirt knobs are present though.

Waldo, do you know if the milspec pots were knurled shaft or not?
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby waldo041 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:30 am

RiverRat wrote:Waldo, do you know if the milspec pots were knurled shaft or not?


no, all the mil spec'd rv4 or type j's are plain shafts. some 2 inches long some regular size. although i am unsure if it is an option for the PEC version, but all i have ever seen are plain shaft.

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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:37 am

Look at their breath... It was COLD that night... And we know that the next show was 7/2, the Winterland show where he played the Les Paul TV... Looks like this was when the pickguard break occurred.

waldo041 wrote:no, all the mil spec'd rv4 or type j's are plain shafts. some 2 inches long some regular size. although i am unsure if it is an option for the PEC version, but all i have ever seen are plain shaft.


Plain shaft pots would require switching away from the stock Fender knobs. So the mil-spec pots could have happened in between March and June 71.
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby b weird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:40 pm

Do you think maybe right after the show Jerry went to do something under the pickguard, just unscrewed a few of the screws to just peer under and snapped it since it was brittle from the cold? It makes sense I guess.
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:55 pm

b weird wrote:Do you think maybe right after the show Jerry went to do something under the pickguard, just unscrewed a few of the screws to just peer under and snapped it since it was brittle from the cold? It makes sense I guess.


And right after that, he threw the pieces on the ground and said... "What the fuck?!? Ron told me there was a preamp in this thing!"
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby waldo041 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:17 pm

the truth is from what i have heard is that he didn't like the "active" electronics alembic was doing with guitars. i believe early alembic did everything they could to get a guitar in jerry's hands to promote them, but it never happened. he liked irwins eagle because it fit him better and because it was passive. and requested the next(wolf) with stratocaster guts. irwins eagle had balance issues and why there is still a slide in it. what changes with the tone of gator is the action. there is a sonic difference between the low action most play and the high action jerry adopted. i think with gators bridge modding is where jerry adopted that setup, and about the time that snappy low end boinginess begins to be heard consistently. yes, you can hear it before and you can get it with a regular lower setup with a good snappy picking approach, but the higher action inherently has that there and makes it super easy to get that sound.

just my opinion.

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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby b weird » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:50 pm

Eagle? I'm lost, what guitar is that?
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby RiverRat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:08 pm

b weird wrote:Eagle? I'm lost, what guitar is that?


The first guitar that Doug Irwin built, Jerry purchased it and then commisioned Irwin to build Wolf for him.

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http://www.alembic.com/club/messages/393/37892.html?1178872647

Look at who pops up in that thread... the man is everywhere a Jerry guitar is mentioned... :-)
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby waldo041 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:50 pm

"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Alligator timeline

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:06 pm

RiverRat wrote:
b weird wrote:Do you think maybe right after the show Jerry went to do something under the pickguard, just unscrewed a few of the screws to just peer under and snapped it since it was brittle from the cold? It makes sense I guess.


And right after that, he threw the pieces on the ground and said... "What the fuck?!? Ron told me there was a preamp in this thing!"


What is the source of the story that the 2-piece pickguard was accidentally broken? Seems like it could have easily been an intentional mod, to improve access. Jerry's TB-500 had the same arrangement going on, but in fairness, that could have been simply inspired by the broken one.
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