Solo thoughts

Re: Solo thoughts

Postby GratefulPat » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:18 pm

dead ahead has it
Comes a time, when the blind man takes your hand and says "dont you see?"
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Rynlander » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:18 am

You guys might want to try C Dorian. The raised 6th gives it that jazziness you're looking for. I also throw in a lot of the chromatic notes between any maj 2nd interval in the scale. Lots of half step backwards bends as well. It's a fun jam.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby tcsned » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:31 pm

I use the C-Dorian as well (use it for a lot of Dead stuff- a great spacey scale), agreed anything open like that has to get chromatic at some point.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:35 am

So I've been reviewing versions of the solo over the verse... the GGGC>FF>CC section, on Archive, and am not finding many where Jer just rips it with complete fluentness. 'Always sounds a bit clammy through that passage, like he never came up with a strong bag of tricks for this segment.
Anyone know of any absolute shredders?
Last edited by Pete B. on Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:43 am

Pete B. wrote:So I've been reviewing versions of the solo over the verse... the GGGG>FF>CC section, on Archive, and am not finding many where Jer just rips it with complete fluentness. 'Always sounds a bit clammy through that passage, like he never came up with a strong bag of tricks for this segment.
Anyone know of any absolute shredders?


Pete, lemme know what you think about 12/5/79 or 10/17/83
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:59 am

The Egypt Shakedown is cool ..... very slow .... very long .... very spacey ....Jerry solos over the intro riff really cool ...
04/26/83 Philly is cool ... maybe more what you are looking for ....
peace
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:06 am

12/5/79 starting at ~3:25 is pretty typicall of what I've been hearing over the GGGC>FF>CC>Dm... section. He picks up fluency as he transitions to the FMaj7>Em section.
I'm not seeing a Shakedown on 10/17/83.

fwiw, In looking for a good jumping off point for the Shakedown verse solo (from my own bag o' tricks) for that G section (beginning the verse solo), I am finding that the licks I use on the A chord section of the EMaj7>Bm>A solo of Eyes, when transposed to G, work great!
I can then do a Dm Dorian run from the low E string (fret 10) to High E string (two octaves), over the FF>CC segment, to get back to the Dm holding pattern, then.... rinse and repeat 8) .

The FMaj7>Em is an arpeggiatic pleasure zone compared to the first section (so far, for me, anyway).

edit:
Nice recording and (starting around 3:05) a pretty strong showing from our boy on this one!:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd83-04- ... sbeok.shnf

On the first pass he finishes the CC section with a little Diminished run... Cool.
Last edited by Pete B. on Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:01 am

Pete B. wrote:edit:
Nice recording and (starting around 3:05) a pretty strong showing from our boy on this one!:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd83-04- ... sbeok.shnf

On the first pass he finishes the CC section with a little Diminished run... Cool.

Did you already have that Spectrum show picked out or did you check it cause I recommended it ?
Diminished scale is cool .... although I cant use as well as I should. I listen for it and can pick it out sometimes.
I'm on a Ship Of Fools kick right now and I think I can hear it in there a bit.
Does Pete know if the Mars Hotel version has diminished scale use in it ?
Peace :D
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:51 pm

Tennessee Jedi wrote:
Pete B. wrote:edit:
Nice recording and (starting around 3:05) a pretty strong showing from our boy on this one!:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd83-04- ... sbeok.shnf

On the first pass he finishes the CC section with a little Diminished run... Cool.

Did you already have that Spectrum show picked out or did you check it cause I recommended it ?
Diminished scale is cool .... although I cant use as well as I should. I listen for it and can pick it out sometimes.
I'm on a Ship Of Fools kick right now and I think I can hear it in there a bit.
Does Pete know if the Mars Hotel version has diminished scale use in it ?
Peace :D


d'oh, beat me to the punch! I had just pulled this one out of my CD collection and have it on the stereo as we speak... really love this show, incredible Let It Grow and H>S>F, all high favorites for me.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby tigerstrat » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:03 pm

4/26/83: God, those little run-rips and phatty Mu bends as they wrap up the Poke Around Chant are just... ultra-super-heady Jerry, and the whole band just boils over into the C7 jam. What's up with the spring-crashing right there I wonder? Towards the end of the jam, Phil steps out, head-rippingly loud! Possibly my new favorite Shakedown. That 1st part of the guitar solo is probably as close as your going to get to what you are looking for... or the studio version which actually has a great solo. 7/15/88 might be the best one I ever attended... or 4/3/90.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:16 pm

Tennessee Jedi wrote:Did you already have that Spectrum show picked out or did you check it cause I recommended it ?

I'm on a Ship Of Fools kick right now and I think I can hear it in there a bit.
Does Pete know if the Mars Hotel version has diminished scale use in it ?
Peace :D


Oh yeah, that date was based on your rec (thanks!), and that recording was just the one I happended to click on and was pleasently surprised by the quality (definitely worth sharing).

'Not sure about the Dim thing on the Mars Ship O'. I will give it a listen.

I'll typically hear that SlipKnot sounding run in some jam (like this one) and try to work it in to my own bag o' tricks... It's like Jer uses the same lick, or some derivative of it, in different contexts.

Here's what I'm messing with for the first half of the Shakedown Verse solo.
This Tab starts with the first 4 beats [GGGC] (this lick is straight out of the Englishtown Eyes solo... the "A" chord segment of the EMaj7>Bm>A solo/jam... slide this segment of the tab up two frets to use this lick in Eyes).
E|----------10--------------------------------------------
B|--10/12------12--10-------------------------------------
G|----------------------12--11--10--9---------------------
D|-------------------------------------12--11--10--9------
A|----------------------------------------------------10--
E|--------------------------------------------------------

Over the 2 beats of F [FF] (pulled out of the Dm Dorian scale):
E|-------------------------------------
B|-------------------------------------
G|-------------------------------------
D|-----------------------------10--11--
A|-----------------10--11--12----------
E|--8/10--12--13-----------------------

Over the 2 beats of C or C7 [CC] segment (note the Dim run).
E|---------------------9--12--9--
B|-----------------11------------
G|------9--10--12----------------
D|--12---------------------------
A|-------------------------------
E|-------------------------------

That whole run flows together as one long lick and is played in time (tap your foot) with the 4 beats of G, 2 beats of F, 2 beats of C(7) [GGGC, FF, CC].

For now I'm going back to the Intro lick after the last note.
E|--13--12--10----13-13--12-12--10----
B|------------------------------------
G|------------------------------------
D|------------------------------------
A|------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------

The basic Dim run I use (and then add other notes as/if needed) is this... (play it over and over and move it up of down 3 frets and play the same shape to get some mileage out of it):
E|-------------9--12--9----------
B|---------11------------11------
G|--9--12--------------------12--
D|-------------------------------
A|-------------------------------
E|-------------------------------
Last edited by Pete B. on Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:54 am

tigerstrat wrote: ...What's up with the spring-crashing right there I wonder?...


I'm guessing Parish just planted his elbows on Jer's Twin cab.

Image
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:25 am

'Gave the studio version a spin... Jer doesn't solo over the verse at all.
He only solos over the Dm (intro/theme lick) segment.
My guess as to why so many live Verse solos sound a bit hunt-&-peck-ee, is that he never really worked up the groundwork for a strong Verse solo before touring.
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby Pete B. » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:17 pm

Hey the first lick in that Shakedown Verse-solo tab is the same lick heard in this Eyes archive at the 9:07-9:08 mark (played over the A segment of the EMaj7>Bm>A jam).

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-0 ... 650.flac16

I tabbed it in G for Shakedwon, but in the context of Eyes it is in A, so add 2 to the frets numbers to use it in Eyes.

E|----------10--------------------------------------------
B|--10/12------12--10-------------------------------------
G|----------------------12--11--10--9---------------------
D|-------------------------------------12--11--10--9------
A|----------------------------------------------------10--
E|--------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Solo thoughts

Postby cosmicbass » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:18 pm

When I look at this solo -- here are my thoughts on it....I shared this with a friend, and he suggested I post it here for discussion, So here is a cleaned up cut and paste:

Earlier in the thread Bill suggested the following modes: G mixolydian, D dorian, F lydian and E phrygian. All of these modes are based off the C Ionian (major scale) mode. So, if the early suggestion is valid, then Jerry is basically jamming in the key of C Major (no sharps and flats), choosing which mode to follow based off the chord progression, and adding in some accidentals when he wants them (provides tension etc). So let's look at the song and see what it tells us.

The modes of C Major (no sharps or flats) are as follows. Remember modes are basically just the notes of the major scale with the root starting at each successive note.

The modes of C Major (no sharps or flats):
C Ionion (major scale) Notes: C-D-E-F-G-A-B
D Dorian Notes: D-E-F-G-A-B
E Phrygian Notes: E-F-G-A-B-C-D
F Lydian Notes: F-G-A-B etc etc etc for the rest of the modes
G Mixolydian
A Aoelian (natural minor scale)
B Locrian

Now let's look at the chords in the song and see if there are any accidentals and if this song is truly in the Key of C:

Intro/Verses:
Dm (D-F-G)
G (G-B-D)
F (F-A-C)
C (C-E-G)
C9 (C-E-Bb-G)

Bridge:
FMaj7 (F-E-A-C)
Em7 (E-G-B-D)
D#7 - skipping this because he's just sliding between the Em7 to the Dm7 here. It's insignificant for this exercise.
Dm7 (D-F-A-C)

Chorus:
C7sus4 (C-F-G-Bb)
C7 (C-E-Bb)

So, looking at the chords, we looking at all natural notes with a single flat (Bb). On a piano that is all white keys, with one black key (Bb).

Technically speaking, the key signature with only one flat (Bb) is the key of F Major.

The modes of F Major are:
F Ionian (F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E)
G Lydian (G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F)
A Phrygian (A-Bb-C-D-E-etc etc etc)
Bb Lydian
C Mixolydian (C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb)
D Aoelian (natural minor)
E Locrian

So, you could say the song is in the Key of F major/D minor (one flat -Bb) and play those modes and be perfectly within the key. They just may not fit the best or have the best fretboard pattern.

Or, you could say the song is in the Key of C major and just recognize the Bb accidental in the C9/C7 chords that adds some tension.

Since their are no Bb chords in the song, but several root C chords, this song would probably be charted as a C major song on the sheet music with no sharps/flats by the treble cleff on the beginning of each staff. The Bb accidental would just be noted in the measures it appeared with the C9/C7s chords.

OK, after that analysis, running on the assumption we call this a C Major song: I agree with pretty much everything the that was previously posted by Bill, except for one thing. His use of Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian are appropriate in those sections of the song. However, the use of C Blues (with all the other notes added in) over the C Chorus/Jam section -- in my opinion -- is not the best choice. Choices are personal though, so take no offense. Look at the chords that are being jammed on:
C7sus4 (C-F-G-Bb)
C7 (C-E-Bb)

Those are the notes of C Mixolydian. And what was Jerry Garcia's favorite mode/scale? Mixolydian. If it was me -- I'd play the the rest of the song in C Major and use the modes suggested (D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian) in those places of the song. You're basically just modularly jamming in C Major and as the root changes with the chord progression (hence modes). However, during the long C jam that has chords with pronounced Bbs -- just embrace the Mixolydian like I am pretty sure Jerry did!
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