Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:44 pm

jonarobb wrote:Curious who wired that up. Doesn't have any elements of Tiger's original wiring. If you bring it down to NY ever I'll rewire it correctly. Stacked pot and seperate tone controls for each pickup, dedicated individual Ceramic caps for each tone control, correct 5 way wiring, correct coil cut arrangement, etc....

J-


Hey Jonarobb, do you have a good wiring diagram/specs for Tiger's electronics? Or do you just go by the info that's floating around on dozin? Just curious, as I'm building Rosebud for a guy, and Wolf for another guy, and I'd love to see what you'd do, as you mention the original wiring elements.

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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby waldo041 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:45 pm

andrew,

didn't you have wolf in your shop?

tiger is single/series and not parallel/series, minus the stratoblaster. it has an opamp based preamp.

just wondering what's wrong with the schems at dozin?

peace,
waldo



http://dozin.com/jers/guitars/wolf/schematic.htm
http://dozin.com/jers/guitars/tiger/tiger_schematic.htm
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby jonarobb » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:57 pm

aoguitars wrote:
jonarobb wrote:Curious who wired that up. Doesn't have any elements of Tiger's original wiring. If you bring it down to NY ever I'll rewire it correctly. Stacked pot and seperate tone controls for each pickup, dedicated individual Ceramic caps for each tone control, correct 5 way wiring, correct coil cut arrangement, etc....

J-


Hey Jonarobb, do you have a good wiring diagram/specs for Tiger's electronics? Or do you just go by the info that's floating around on dozin? Just curious, as I'm building Rosebud for a guy, and Wolf for another guy, and I'd love to see what you'd do, as you mention the original wiring elements.



I defer to Waldo on that. He's the one that came up paydirt on Tigers guts. I've done 6 total rewires of various Tiger projects for cats based on his schematics and pictures of the actual Tiger. It's a noticable difference if you just follow his schematic.

As for Wolf, I was under the impression the you had seen and/or worked on Wolf, no? We're still all flying blind on that one I think, early Wolf that is, 73-74 ish'.
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:22 pm

I definitely didn't mean for that to sound like there was anything wrong with those schematics, guys! I was just wondering if there was more info out there that I hadn't seen. That Tiger diagram on dozin is fantastic...I was merely looking to see if anything else had surfaced. You clearly know how voracious we all are for info on the originals. By the way I had read your post, jonarobb, I wasn't sure if you were going by something different than that schem that Waldo posted.

I did indeed work on the Wolf, and it seems to me that the schematic is right on. I should have a shot of that cavity around here somewhere if you're interested. I still get goosebumps thinking about playing that thing.

Cheers guys.
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby myoung6923 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:32 pm

aoguitars wrote: I should have a shot of that cavity around here somewhere if you're interested.


We're absolutely interested
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us

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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:45 pm

myoung6923 wrote:
aoguitars wrote: I should have a shot of that cavity around here somewhere if you're interested.


We're absolutely interested


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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby playingdead » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:06 pm

aoguitars wrote:Playingdead, awesome playing and guitar, man! Sounds killer.


Thanks for the kind words!
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:50 pm

sounds good. I'll get it up soon.
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby Emoto » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:53 pm

aoguitars wrote:sounds good. I'll get it up soon.


So will we, once we see the pic!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby jonarobb » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:21 pm

aoguitars wrote:I
I did indeed work on the Wolf, and it seems to me that the schematic is right on. I should have a shot of that cavity around here somewhere if you're interested. I still get goosebumps thinking about playing that thing.

Cheers guys.


i love pictures!!!!
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby waldo041 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:24 pm

andrew,

first of all thanks for engaging us on this. your guitars look great and i bet play and sound the same! nice work!

ok,

when you were with wolf, did you open up the tape or foam around the preamp? if so, was it a stratoblaster? larry craig stated that the "transistor based preamp is ucky poo!" or something like that. he also stated that it is at about a 10Db boost, which would be needed to drive that extra cable. the single transistor based circuit is not as efficient at driving cable as an opamp based buffer, which came later in tiger. did you happen to snatch the ceramic cap values?

any info would be great!

also, it would be pretty cool if you let dozin throw that cavity shot up on the schem!

oh, and i almost forgot, what tunes did you play on wolf? :cool: :cool: :cool:

thanks!

peace,
waldo
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:52 am

Emoto wrote:
aoguitars wrote:sounds good. I'll get it up soon.


So will we, once we see the pic!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



wow...guess I walked right into that one!
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:22 am

waldo041 wrote:andrew,

first of all thanks for engaging us on this. your guitars look great and i bet play and sound the same! nice work!

ok,

when you were with wolf, did you open up the tape or foam around the preamp? if so, was it a stratoblaster? larry craig stated that the "transistor based preamp is ucky poo!" or something like that. he also stated that it is at about a 10Db boost, which would be needed to drive that extra cable. the single transistor based circuit is not as efficient at driving cable as an opamp based buffer, which came later in tiger. did you happen to snatch the ceramic cap values?

any info would be great!

also, it would be pretty cool if you let dozin throw that cavity shot up on the schem!

oh, and i almost forgot, what tunes did you play on wolf? :cool: :cool: :cool:

thanks!

peace,
waldo


My pleasure, guys, and thanks for the kind words Waldo! Hopefully you'll all dig the ones I'm working on. I'm especially excited about building this Rosebud...full on inlays, synth and everything. I'll try to throw some pics of the process up, but I can't promise anything!

First off, I was vibrating all day knowing that Wolf was showing up, having just been sold at the auction. Secondly, that thing was ALIVE. It may be partially because I've held that guitar on a pedestal all my life, I knew what it had been through over the years (especially some of my absolute favorite years of the Dead), and the countless hours that Jerry put into it, but I've never experienced a guitar to really feel alive like that. Without really noticing it, I was playing Sugaree within seconds of getting it in my hands. I think I played Eyes too, but to be honest, it's all quite a blur. There's a pic in Paulinc's Wolf thread of me looking scared shitless with Wolf. It was totally surreal. And man was it beat up.

Anyway, I'll get that picture up soon, and I'm cool with it going to Dozin, for sure. I had the cap values at .022s. And Waldo, it's interesting that you asked about the Stratoblaster, but you're questioning my memory of it now. I knew it was one originally, and I remember it being one when we had it open, but then the guy we were building the copies for wanted to go to the UGB so I think we bailed on the Blaster. So now I'm wondering if I remember it correctly...it was 7 years ago. From the picture, it sure looks like an old Blaster, but you'd probably know better than I would.
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby waldo041 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 am

aoguitars wrote:Anyway, I'll get that picture up soon, and I'm cool with it going to Dozin, for sure. I had the cap values at .022s. And Waldo, it's interesting that you asked about the Stratoblaster, but you're questioning my memory of it now. I knew it was one originally, and I remember it being one when we had it open, but then the guy we were building the copies for wanted to go to the UGB so I think we bailed on the Blaster. So now I'm wondering if I remember it correctly...it was 7 years ago. From the picture, it sure looks like an old Blaster, but you'd probably know better than I would.


soo cool of you to pass the info on! thanks!

i'd imagine if he had heard larry craigs(neil youngs tech) statement on it, he probably opted for the newer opamp buffer. along with his statement and the fact he also said it had a 10Db boost point to a blaster. the wire colors also point to a blaster. i'd love to actually get a peak at it! it most definately is modded for always on operation. at 10Db gain, it also most likely flew thru batteries!

by "Alive" do you mean it had good acoustical properties when unplugged OR it was pretty hot and touch sensitive? or quite possibly, or most likely both?
in my stratoblaster research, compensating for the volume loss of the effects loop when engaged vs. disengaged called for pushing the Db's of the blaster. 10Db sounds about right from my research, but boy does that make for a hot guitar.the effects loved it and had to be tamed a little vs a tiger buffer clone!

something else that was on my mind. did you happen to get the potentiometer values? especially the dual ganged TYPE J.

thanks again!

peace,
waldo
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Re: Tiger wiring issue (Waldo?)

Postby aoguitars » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:04 am

I know he had been reading the info on dozin, and new about the Cutler JG-1 so I think he was going on that info, as not a lot of info was talking about the Blaster. Am I right in thinking that you make one too? I've heard about these Waldo buffers...tell me more!

By "Alive" I just mean that it had a soul to it. It really rang unplugged and was so clear and articulate once we plugged it in. I don't remember it being particularly hot, but I wasn't exactly trying to drive anything, either, so I had it at a pretty low volume. But it just had that vibe and that sound that we're all so used to hearing from those early-mid '70s shows. And it was so comfortable to play, with that small, organic shape. You could tell it had been played for 30 years, for sure...it was like a well oiled baseball glove. Your info on the 10db Blaster makes a lot of sense, especially since Jerry's tone was always so articulate--something had to be driving it like that without getting muddy.

As far as the dual-ganged pot, it's definitely an Allen-Bradley Type J, and I can get the number. You have it right, though, that it's a 250K/500K. I'm sure, also, that you'll be able to identify more from the pic once I get it up here, Waldo...I'll try to get to that today.
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