required riffs - - Hard to Handle

required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby trking8 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:00 pm

just some woodshedding to bump you above the intermediate level:



hope it's helpful,

terry
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby old man down » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:41 am

Haven't watched this video yet, but I hope it includes this one part that is in, maybe, every H2H. It happens when they are in the jam and it may be a modulation to a higher key or maybe to just a different mode, but it is definitely one of the required elements. I've never been able to get it. It is like a slight pause, a sort of nondescript lull of notes with Jerry then moving things up a few notes, and then they are into a different segment of the jam. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Can be heard on Bear's Choice and also on the Phil Zone recording.
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby trking8 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:17 am

didn't really use this to show variations on H2H, just basic riffs for intermediate players.

my only present recollection (admittedly dim) was that they used to crank up a jam in the middle. If out of A, the jam was: A G C D, then ending on an extended E.

t
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby Billbbill » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:05 am

trking8 wrote:If out of A, the jam was: A G C D, then ending on an extended E.

t


I've always played this a step up, but more to the point I never play the D in the above progression. Just A G C E and the last E extended.

So in the midst of this post I just listened to 8/6/71 from the Hollywood Bowl - I believe it's the Philzone version, could be wrong.


http://www.archive.org/download/gd71-08 ... 08_vbr.mp3

Certainly one of the hottest versions.

With terry's key (I do believe it's a step up although playing along with this version I was vampin on C w/ my martin backpacker - my gitbox is sharp) the jam vamps in A and A7, with a 4 (D) here and there etc., then I do believe the progression is as I stated although it's a little fuzzy in the first couple of measures. Then it seems to be more clearly defined. Then to some more A vamping before going back to the progression again and the last pass holds the E before going back to the verse A riff.

I don't know if this answers omd's question or not.
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby old man down » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:59 am

Billbbill, I broke out my CD of Bear's Choice last night. What a terrible version, what was Owsley thinking? But anyway, we used to do this song with great success.

I always thought, and still think, the chords during the verses are, like, B B7 E D B, and repeating. Then there is that other chord, don't have my guitar here to think it through, and then finally a B and STOP. Then the threes: A E B

In the jam from the Phil zone it goes finally to, I think i have it right, B A D [?], don't know the braketed chord without my guitar in hand. :?

But, anyway, I found a few sweet things on Jer's riffing that I had never found before on Bear's choice.

The cool thing about learning guitar is that when you eventually cycle back to something you learned a long time before, it is much clearer when you get to it anew. Your increased understanding over time allows you to make further progress on stuff that was so mysterious once before.
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby trking8 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:55 am

old man down wrote:I always thought, and still think, the chords during the verses are, like, B B7 E D B, and repeating. Then there is that other chord, don't have my guitar here to think it through, and then finally a B and STOP. Then the threes: A E B

In the jam from the Phil zone it goes finally to, I think i have it right, B A D [?], don't know the braketed chord without my guitar in hand. :?


yeah, that's it. if it's out of B, then it sounds like the break/jam is B A D E (see, about 6 minutes into the hollywood show you attached). then they hold and build up on the E.

interesting that the crowd goes wild around 4:50 when all the band is doing is just building up and being repetitive.

terry

damn, kind of wish you hadn't attached that. now, doing a memo on Pa's uninsured/underinsured auto coverage doesn't seem like as much fun...
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby Billbbill » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:54 am

old man down wrote:Billbbill, I broke out my CD of Bear's Choice last night. What a terrible version, what was Owsley thinking? But anyway, we used to do this song with great success.

I always thought, and still think, the chords during the verses are, like, B B7 E D B, and repeating. Then there is that other chord, don't have my guitar here to think it through, and then finally a B and STOP. Then the threes: A E B

In the jam from the Phil zone it goes finally to, I think i have it right, B A D [?], don't know the braketed chord without my guitar in hand. :?

But, anyway, I found a few sweet things on Jer's riffing that I had never found before on Bear's choice.

The cool thing about learning guitar is that when you eventually cycle back to something you learned a long time before, it is much clearer when you get to it anew. Your increased understanding over time allows you to make further progress on stuff that was so mysterious once before.


If you haven't seen it my take on the intro and verse (Bob riff) are here

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3546

Verse wise I don't play the D chord you have although the hammer I do from the D to the Eb note approximates a D to B chord change - sorta. :smile:

The "other chord" you're thinking about is F#(7). It's also the missing chord from your progression, as I see it - B-A-D-F#

For the lead I play pretty much B blues (minor Pentatonic) with some added notes. Using this scale makes for some cool phrasing over the chord progression during the jam with some added noted as well.
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby old man down » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:38 am

Yeah, that B minor pentatonic fits so well on those B A D F# chords, and you can follow their circuitous route to the really high frets with great success. Back in the seventies there was no Phil Zone album out but there was this Nights of the Living Dead album with the same H2H show. I listened to that so many times for H2H, mostly to get Weir's part.

If when the crowd goes wild at 4:50 is what I think it is, it is when Weir is just on an inversion of the B7 chord, but he stays on it through the 4/4 measures, really strumming hard, and goes through so many measures without releasing the tension that you can see how it would become unbearable, or too much, and then Garcia comes in real loud with that VERY strong, descending lead line and all hell breaks loose. I don't even have to listen to the recording, I played it over so many times, it's permanently etched. Still, when I hear it again, I find that I've forgotten certain parts. :D :smile:
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:27 am

B, A, D, F# is the jam theme you are trying to describe.

Done that way in all of them not just the groovy 4/22/71 I am hearing for the first time right now. There's also one spot where Phil goes in to lean on G# (Maj 6 against the B), but shies away as if it might "burn up the clutch".

Many incredible versions from that era.

http://www.archive.org/download/gd71-04-22.sbd.clugston.2176.sbeok.shnf/gd71-04-22.sbd.clugston.2176.sbeok.shnf_vbr.m3u (Tr 07)

<edit> (d'oh, TWO peeps beat me to the punch! had this reply window open for a couple of hours before getting to typing anything...)

<edit too> dang, the Bobby MackGahaye on this 4/22/71 has some really sweet Phil and Jerry moments! One of the best versions of this song I've heard.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby jonarobb » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:33 pm

The 8/7/71 version from the houseboat tapes is really the sickest thing ever. The tension that Phil creates as they're building up to that set of changes in the jam is amazing. He's working that A & Eb tritone in B7 to death with great results. Always one of my favs. Great recording on DP 35.
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby Guyute24 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:40 pm

check out the 4-28, or 4-29-71 versions, they do the B A D F# jam really well and come out of it shining......
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Re: required riffs - - Hard to Handle

Postby trking8 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:04 pm

digging the F#

t
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