lazylightnin>supplication

Postby pappypgh » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:21 pm

Tennessee Jedi wrote:Small world Pappy - I was just thinking "What Good shit can I send to Pappy ?".
How bout Uptown Theater run - 2/26/81,2/28/81,2/29/81.
There is no L Lightening either.

:smile:


I'm always up for good shit! :D

I have 2/26, but not the other 2! KILLER!
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"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby tigerstrat » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:42 pm

pappypgh wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:I think you are probably right about my focus on Garcia's non-chordal part smearing my perception a little bit; however he wasn't so much fanning through the change in my referenced version (2/26/81, not F'd-up by any stretch), but arpeggiating through it.



One man's fanning is another man's arpeggiating! :lol:

BTW - There is NO Lazy Lightning on 2/26/81! What are you talkin' about?! I have a GREAT copy of that show...Chicago, Uptown Theater. Good Althea! Good Truckin'! No Lazy Lightning. :-?


D'oh- my bad AGAIN (I'm on a roll folks). The disc in my deck is 11/9/79 Buffalo, not 2/26/81.

btw that Uptown run is 2/26,27,28 - no show on the 29th... nor was '81 a leap year. THE set to have out of that run is easily 2/27 II. ridiculous hammer-and-sickleberry.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:00 pm

Can someone post the Bass Guitar tab for the verse?
I think that is Key to the Am7>C>Am on the first line of the verses.
After listening to some keyboard intensive versions I think it really is just a basic Am>C>Am there.
~pb
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Postby tigerstrat » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:56 am

Pete B. wrote:Can someone post the Bass Guitar tab for the verse?
I think that is Key to the Am7>C>Am on the first line of the verses.
After listening to some keyboard intensive versions I think it really is just a basic Am>C>Am there.
~pb


I don't generally do tab unless I have all day to kill, but the bass does an A,G,A bounce there, which could either be construed as (root of Am, 5th of C maj, root of Am) OR (9 of Gm9, C maj, root of Am)

So... Am7 vs. Gm9: they both contain A (1 or 9) and G (7 or 1), leaving the respective difference of Bb,F vs. C,E.

btw, on the intro, in what people seem to be calling the "F maj7 punches", Phil "punches" a G natural, which would seem to make this chord more like an Fadd9, however the "E" sounds like it fits right in, so maybe an Fmaj7add9.
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Postby Pete B. » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:44 pm

tigerstrat wrote:I don't generally do tab unless I have all day to kill,...


Oh man, I used to think the same about tab, but tab is super easy using the Guitar Tab Creator that is linked to this page (the verse can't be much over a dozen notes before it repeats).

but the bass does an A,G,A bounce there,...


FWIW, I'm hearing 3 separate notes being played by the bass over the Am>C>Am... G, C, A?
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Postby pappypgh » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:35 pm

Pete B. wrote:FWIW, I'm hearing 3 separate notes being played by the bass over the Am>C>Am... G, C, A?


I am too, Pete. That's why I think it's a Gm > C > Am.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but the BEST THING one can do when trying to figure out a song is listen to SEVERAL DIFFERENT VERSIONS, and pick out what is consistent and what isn't. I have a feeling ol' Phil wasn't very consistent with this song, as there's a TON of room for jazz voicings.

Just my .02 (man, I put in a lot of those - I must be up to almost 50 bucks, by now!) :roll:
www.theCAUSEjams.com

"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:02 pm

pappypgh wrote:...the BEST THING one can do when trying to figure out a song is listen to SEVERAL DIFFERENT VERSIONS, and pick out what is consistent and what isn't.


I agree.
I have developed at least 3-5 ways to play each segment of this song (intro, verse chords, bridge, D7/9/? chord/licks, etc...), based on repeated listening to many versions.
I've had a fun 7-10 days (so far) studying this song!
Thanks for all the inputs!
~pb

ps
Singing this one in 7/4 is a bitch!
(maybe i should say, "Learning to sing any song in 7/4, when you're not used to 7/4, and don't have the words memorized... man, Bobby really rattles off 'dem lyrics like a machine gun.)
Back to the woodshed!
:?
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Postby tigerstrat » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:43 am

Pete B. wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:I don't generally do tab unless I have all day to kill,...


Oh man, I used to think the same about tab, but tab is super easy using the Guitar Tab Creator that is linked to this page (the verse can't be much over a dozen notes before it repeats).


It's not the tabbing itself, more the time spent listening and relistening, breaking down phrases that flow naturally at tempo, but start to get nebulous when dissected slowly... second-guessing, anti-musical tedium : Do I include this tiny grace note? Is it really there? Do I simplify complex runs to the fundamentals and keep it coherent...? The biggest reason I don't like it is that there are so many alternate ways TO play or that the music WAS played, that I prefer a ummm... holistic(?) approach- learning the theory, absorbing the influences... channeling the lysergic forces of the universe :D

Ahem. On (a few of) the many takes from the 76 rehearsal tape (convenient way to scroll through several different takes at a lowered tempo), "A,G,A" is what Phil does essentially However, the fact that it's a song-learning session says that this references immature versions of this song. The players haven't worked out their individual parts yet (especially Jerry who uses none of the brilliant licks he later applied live) let alone weaving them together with the subtlety this song later had.
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Postby Pete B. » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:42 am

Yeah, I know what you mean about the tab thing.


Anyway... I briefly ran the tune with a bass player and drummer the other night just before a gig, and it seemed he (bass player) already had it 80% there just off the top of his head. Cool.

Someday I'll start seriously working on the Jerry solos! So far I have just been arrpegiating up and down the neck through the solo section over the verse, (building muscle memory), which seems to be a big part of it for this tune. Not worried so much about the D7/Fmaj7 jam, as the way the notes involved for these chords overlay, it's a beautiful thing.
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Postby old man down » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:25 pm

Pete B. wrote:O.K here's what I've got going so far on this one...

The intro, etc, is based on listing from this Live version:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-1 ... eok.flac16

These are just some of my current thoughts on the tune. I'll try to get an up-to-speed version posted later.
~pb


That archive link sure gives a clear rendition. Jer is so loud compared to everything else that if you learn his part you have a solo version that will sound fine without anything else.

One Fmaj7 at the end of the intro that I found by osmosis just before going abroad, that no one else has mention yet, I think, is

e|12
B|10
G|10
D|10
A|X
E|X

Simple to throw on since you're already hanging around the 8th fret to begin with.

Get's the job done, and you could go to your Jerry riffs from there, which are 12th fret and higher.

Just one more idea to throw on the bonfire.
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Postby Pete B. » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:20 pm

That's a good'n.

I like this one to...
Fmaj7

E|--5--
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--3--
A|--x--
E|--x--
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Postby mttourpro » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:09 pm

Another thank you for all those that helped get this tune worked out. FWIW, we played it again last night at practice and it's just about ready for the real world. We're gonna break it out real soon.

Now for the next project---can you say Pride of Cucamunga and Unbroken?!! :cool:
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let your life proceed by its own design....
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:16 pm

I was thinking maybe we could use this thread to learn some tunes AND fix some of the tab around here.
Stay on top of things and all that.Update stuff.
I mean we could have some good tab for Lazy Lightening to put up just from this thread.
Not to mention we have instruments other than guitar to really dial the shit in.
This is the best Dead Site - we should have the best tab.

:smile: :smile: :smile:
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Postby pappypgh » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:29 pm

mttourpro wrote:Another thank you for all those that helped get this tune worked out. FWIW, we played it again last night at practice and it's just about ready for the real world. We're gonna break it out real soon.

Now for the next project---can you say Pride of Cucamunga and Unbroken?!! :cool:



FIRST of all - REAL SOON? After last night, which was indeed, the best we've played it so far, I'd say it's about 2 months away from being ripe. At this point it's getting there, but we don't play it with the kind of touch we play all the songs we know REALLY well (like LLRain, right Tour Pro?! :lol: ). That's my .02 - we did it okay - but it's not stage-ready yet...not even close.

But yes DEFINITELY - thanks to EVERYONE for their input....I think we should ALL take a bow, 'cause the chords seem REALLY right to me now. That Gm-C-Am is clutch!!! Singing & playing it at the same time is a total bitch....my old band did this song a long time ago - and I'm okay w/ it until Supplication. Singing Supplication whilst playing it is rough, to say the least. I have no problem w/ Estimated and Lazy Lightning but sheeeeesh!!!

FINALLY, FWIW - I can play Pride Of Cucamonga - I just need to learn the lyrics. Unbroken? I dunno, I figured the boys only whipped it out in 95 'cause they had nothing else to whip out of any great, colossal worth. They didn't play that song out for 21 years EVER, so I feel it's best left to the studio version. I've NEVER heard a great live version of it by anyone....just my .02. :roll:
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"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Re: lazylightnin>supplication

Postby mttourpro » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:07 pm

our first try at Lazy Lightning Supplication 12/01/2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBwDSCwQMzc

it's already on RUK in other places, but I thought it should be here too as a final chapter in this thread.
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