looking for an envelope filter

Postby WSPHead » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:24 pm

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Postby DynaSound1 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:59 am

After using a Mutron III+ reissue for a number of years, I decided to go for a change and bought the Emma. I shouldn't have waited so long. In a matter of moments I was able to nail "the sound" I also tried an older Q Tron which I found to have more versatility...but I'll stick with the Emma.She's the girl of my dreams...LOL

I was able to get it for $190 which isn't too much more that a new Q Tron +.

If you can...go for it.

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Postby Jon S. » Sat May 10, 2008 5:15 pm

The Emma is a great pedal. That being said, I'm fine with my original issue Boss T-Wah. NOT the Auto-Wah (different design), the original T-Wah. Pretty much a one-trick pony but the trick works.

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Postby deadguise » Sun May 11, 2008 10:55 am

Jon S., that's an interesting switch board you have there, did you build it?
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Postby Jon S. » Sun May 11, 2008 5:39 pm

I built the pedalboard itself from materials from Home Depot + some fabric on top. At the bottom of the pic is an 8-loop Loop Master (I think that's what you're referring to with your quewstion) with additional tuner out and full bypass switches as options. The unit allows me to connect each pedal to its own independent, true-bypass loop, mute the works when I tune, and bypass everything when I want to.

The Loop Master wasn't necessarily an expense and complication I wanted but I found I was getting quite a bit of degradation on my tone without it. Now everything, alone or in combination, sounds really good.

The cords are all off-the-shelf. I was going to invest next in boutique, solderless, cut-to-length cords like George Ls or the like but, fact is, the tone now is so good now I don't feel the need to change anything further at this point.
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Postby strumminsix » Sun May 11, 2008 5:50 pm

nice clean board, jon! they make a nice looper.
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Mon May 12, 2008 6:22 am

Never seen the Boss T-wah before. Cool.
Cant stand the Auto Wah.
Love how my Holy Grail sounds but as soon as some other pedals go in the chain - poof - the grail loses a bunch.
One of these days I will go true bypass.
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Postby Pete B. » Mon May 12, 2008 8:31 am

Looks like some interesting stuff!
I'm looking at the Eight-Loop Effect Switcher w/Tuner Out and Master Bypass for $215, (what you have, right?).

This is basically a present day Jerry Rig for effects, no?

http://www.loop-master.com/index.php?cPath=21
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Postby strumminsix » Mon May 12, 2008 8:39 am

Pete B. wrote:Looks like some interesting stuff!
I'm looking at the Eight-Loop Effect Switcher w/Tuner Out and Master Bypass for $215, (what you have, right?).

This is basically a present day Jerry Rig for effects, no?

http://www.loop-master.com/index.php?cPath=21


No. It's alternative but Jerry and Bobby both had something like that.

Basically they both used a switcher of sorts over the years.

Keeps the FX behind ya and controllers in front of you.

This alternative keeps both the FX and controller in front of you.

The pros and cons vary. But basically doing this keeps ya on a pedal board and avoids a rack.
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Postby pappypgh » Mon May 12, 2008 9:03 am

Q-Tron or Mutron is IT, if you're looking for Jerry sounds. The TWah is horrible...you cannot change the proper parameters to make it sound anywhere NEAR what Jerry uses. You'd be better off with an old DOD Envelope Filter, IMO. The Auto-Wah and T-Wah are designed to give more of a WAH effect. There is a difference between Wah and simple envelope change.

BTW - TS, the "High" Setting can be effective if you're using it "in reverse", like the Mutron sound of the 77-78 versions of "Dancin In The Streets".
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Postby Pete B. » Mon May 12, 2008 9:43 am

strumminsix wrote:This alternative keeps both the FX and controller in front of you.

I'm cool with the pedal board factor, 'just want the multi-"true bypass" loops.
That pedal looks less expensive, less intrusive, and more convienient, than it would be to send off my Mutron III, OC-2, etc, for true bypass mods, no?

pappypgh wrote:BTW - TS, the "High" Setting can be effective if you're using it "in reverse", like the Mutron sound of the 77-78 versions of "Dancin In The Streets".


fwiw, I noted the "High" range setting on my MuTron III seems to basically shift the entire effect range into a higher register. I think it would be more usefull if it were a button you could push like when you start playing above the 12th fret, for example.

I watched the long Mutron III solo that Jer takes on FOTM from Closing of the Winterland the other day.
Nice.
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Postby Jon S. » Mon May 12, 2008 10:59 am

pappypgh wrote:Q-Tron or Mutron is IT, if you're looking for Jerry sounds. The TWah is horrible...you cannot change the proper parameters to make it sound anywhere NEAR what Jerry uses.

To repeat, the T-Wah is a one-trick pony but the one trick works *for me.*

There's your notes, your phrasing, your meter & syncopation, your "touch," and your gear & its frequencies. Your brain generates the first 3. Your hands and fingers the next. The last from your gear.

Jerry always sounded like Jerry whether he was playing a Guild, Gibson, Strat, Tavis Bean, Irwin, or Cripe. That's because, in practice, much as we love our specific gear, most of the time, it's really not as critical as we sometimes lead ourselves to believe.

There's also the subjectivity inherent in the definitions of "anywhere" and "NEAR." One person's "nowhere near" can be a second person's "in the ballpark" due to differing perceptions and tolerances.

I'm pretty tolerant with my gear. Perhaps I'm an outlier (this could well be another forum with someone else correcting me that of course I could not possibly cop Duane's tone with my PRS through my little Guyatone compressor into a Traynor amp with me responding, well whadaya know, works for me).

None of this is intended to suggest that a T-Wah sounds better than a MuTron or that someone who prefers one and has the inclination and cash for it should not cop it. I'm just saying that if someone were to come up to me, in a set, to tell me "you're not sounding like Jerry tonight," I wouldn't look to the T-Wah to explain it.
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Postby pappypgh » Mon May 12, 2008 11:45 am

Jon S. wrote:
pappypgh wrote:Q-Tron or Mutron is IT, if you're looking for Jerry sounds. The TWah is horrible...you cannot change the proper parameters to make it sound anywhere NEAR what Jerry uses.

To repeat, the T-Wah is a one-trick pony but the one trick works *for me.*

There's your notes, your phrasing, your meter & syncopation, your "touch," and your gear & its frequencies. Your brain generates the first 3. Your hands and fingers the next. The last from your gear.

Jerry always sounded like Jerry whether he was playing a Guild, Gibson, Strat, Tavis Bean, Irwin, or Cripe. That's because, in practice, much as we love our specific gear, most of the time, it's really not as critical as we sometimes lead ourselves to believe.

There's also the subjectivity inherent in the definitions of "anywhere" and "NEAR." One person's "nowhere near" can be a second person's "in the ballpark" due to differing perceptions and tolerances.

I'm pretty tolerant with my gear. Perhaps I'm an outlier (this could well be another forum with someone else correcting me that of course I could not possibly cop Duane's tone with my PRS through my little Guyatone compressor into a Traynor amp with me responding, well whadaya know, works for me).

None of this is intended to suggest that a T-Wah sounds better than a MuTron or that someone who prefers one and has the inclination and cash for it should not cop it. I'm just saying that if someone were to come up to me, in a set, to tell me "you're not sounding like Jerry tonight," I wouldn't look to the T-Wah to explain it.


I agree - to a point. I'm not saying that you'll sound JUST like Jerry if you get a Q-Tron or Mutron. BUT it WILL be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay closer to the effect he got, if that's what you're going for. Warren Haynes uses either the Auto-Wah or T-Wah and it's terrible on P&F versions of Shakedown, etc... now, that's MY opinion, but it is nowhere in the vicinity of how Garcia's effect sounded.

My reason for thinking the sound of a T-Wah / Auto Wah is crappy is because I believe both to be far more of a harsh tone for this type of music. You can't get any "play" out of either one of them...they are both "in your face" too much for this music....again, in my opinion. That all being said, Jerry HIMSELF had the opportunity to use EITHER ONE and didn't, which tells me he didn't care for them either. Again - I understand taste is subjective. One man gathers what another man spills.

I know I don't have the finger skills OR the rig to sound like Garcia (and, truth be told, I'm not after that)....BUT I do prefer having similar effects when playing certain GD tunes (i.e., Shakedown, Estimated, etc.).

But that's just me. :-)
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Postby Jon S. » Mon May 12, 2008 1:23 pm

That is a fair response, pappypgh, thanks. :)

P.S. If you're in the D.C. area, drop me an email. FBOW, my basement is a high-decibel zone and Deadheads are particularly welcome! :)

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Postby pappypgh » Mon May 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Nice setup!!! If I didn't have 3 kids, I'd certainly have something similar!! :cool:
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