Barre chords?

Postby waldo041 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:45 pm

strumminsix wrote:Nice diclaimer dude! Following your Bertha-ish example and going for the Gsus4 instead of C check this one out:

E|-----------------
B|--3--3--3--3--3--
G|--4--4--5--4--4--
D|--5--5--5--5--5--
A|--5--5--5--5--5--
E|-----------------


that sounds NICE. Yet, another way that barre chord's can work for you, IF you learn how to use them to your advantage.
i use this same G - Gsus4 form in my bands cover of van morrison's Wild Night's.

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Postby sarraqum » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:46 pm

Even though I totally disagree with "barre chords limit your playing" statement I would still like to say that I am 50% sure Jerry plays open G and C during Bertha.....

Then again, maybe its Bobby who plays it with barre chords, he is after all in charge of rhythm.
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:06 pm

sarraqum wrote:Even though I totally disagree with "barre chords limit your playing" statement I would still like to say that I am 50% sure Jerry plays open G and C during Bertha.....

Then again, maybe its Bobby who plays it with barre chords, he is after all in charge of rhythm.


:shock:

all i can say is that i have seen him play it the way i described on some video. i don't remember which one or if it was a bootleg, but i am 100% sure i seen jerry play it with partial barre chords and not in the open position. maybe view from the vault iv's bertha give's a clear view. but i am pretty confident on this one.

and for a side note bob was not in charge of rhythm. bob filled the space inbetween what jerry and phil were doing. jerry was a pretty good rhythm meister himself. check it out on the opening of bertha. :D

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Postby dpmphoto » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:13 pm

disagree all u want its only common sense.hmm I wonder why jerry would be using open chords on bertha instead of barre chords hmmm. ahhh oh.
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Postby tigerstrat » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:51 pm

sarraqum wrote:Even though I totally disagree with "barre chords limit your playing" statement I would still like to say that I am 50% sure Jerry plays open G and C during Bertha.....

Then again, maybe its Bobby who plays it with barre chords, he is after all in charge of rhythm.


I join you in disagreeing: barre chords OPEN up the instrument!!

but JG did not play it open... Bob's barring also, but up at the 7th & 8th frets.

And I do not agree that Bobby is in charge of rhythm!!! They just call what he does "rhythm guitar" for lack of a better term.. sounds better than "subordinate lead" :lol:
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:55 pm

dpmphoto wrote:disagree all u want its only common sense.hmm I wonder why jerry would be using open chords on bertha instead of barre chords hmmm. ahhh oh.


:?

could you please enlighten us(me) with NO common sense? the little i had left just went up in smoke. :D

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Postby waldo041 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:03 pm

here is a nice bertha run i use in the chorus;


E|-----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5---------3---------------
G|--5--6------7--5---------4---------------
D|--5--6------7--5\7-7-5---5---------------
A|--3--4------5--3-------7-5---------------
E|-----------------------------------------
----i/had/to--mo-ove--------really.......


peace,
waldo
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:09 pm

poTAto:
waldo041 wrote:here is a nice bertha run i use in the chorus;


E|-----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5---------3---------------
G|--5--6------7--5---------4---------------
D|--5--6------7--5\7-7-5---5---------------
A|--3--4------5--3-------7-5---------------
E|-----------------------------------------
----i/had/to--mo-ove--------really.......


peace,
waldo


poTAHto:

E|----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5----------3-------------
G|--5--6------7--5-7-5------4-------------
D|--5--6------7--5-----7-5--5-------------
A|--3--4------5--3----------5-------------
E|----------------------------------------
----i/had/to--mo-ove--------really.......
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Postby weirimpressed » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:59 am

the video of bertha (07-04-1989) shows jerry playing it open at some parts and barred in others. Bobby is playing up at the seventh and eighth frets.
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Postby pappypgh » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:18 am

Jerry played MOSTLY partial-barre chords in this song (in F or E form, or however you guys want to say it).

I've said before that I have no patience to read tabs, but I'm hoping that what I saw someone post in the chorus was not a D > C....

" I had to moo-ooove" (the moo-ooove part) is D > Am. Just wanted to make sure I didn't misread that, as I know there are a lot of people who play D > C.

Bobby plays a lot in the "C form" (I guess that's what you'd call it), from what I saw.

:cool:
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Postby old man down » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:18 pm

For acoustic, which slows you down just by the physics of the instrument, there are tricks to get the Bobby rhythm up to speed.

This is the standard form from Skull & Roses (I may be wrong, but humor me.):

e|--3--x--
B|--3--5--
G|--4--5--
D|--5--5--
A|--5--3--
E|--3--3--

G to C on an electric, nice and fast, just the way the album sounds. Weir, if he was very dexterous, might have been able to get the x into a 3 if he could distend his ring far enough to stop the mute.

But for an acoustic to get a nice, cut and dry, sharp edge to the style, you need to get that high e string to ring out on the 3 note.

Placing three high-arched fingers across is too laborious using the open “A” shape, too much to swing back and forth all the time, i.e.

e|--3--3--
B|--3--5--
G|--4--5--
D|--5--5--
A|--5--3--
E|--3--3--

But you can cheat very effectively, maybe even better than other techniques, by laying this pattern on:

e|--3--3--
B|--3--5--
G|--4--5--
D|--5--3--
A|--5--3--
E|--3--3--

This only involves bringing two high arched fingers to bear on the B and G strings and the 3 note on the D string actually sounds really good. Then, you accent the shit out of the e and B strings and you’ll have the cutting edge you want, and it is real fast, like polished steel.

Other methods would involve pioneering other shapes at higher up frets, but you’ll toss and turn on what you want to go with, and feel like you never get enough sleep all the time.
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:06 pm

old man down - is your example the intro?

If so it's G & Gsus4 not G & C.
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Postby ventura85 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:25 pm

I have started using a master grip recently and it has helped alot. It has given my hand muscles extra strength and maybe I'm just going through another platue but going from open to barre chords and barreing in general has got easier for me. 8)
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Postby ronster » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:36 pm

E|----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5----------3-------------
G|--5--6------7--5-7-5------4-------------
D|--5--6------7--5-----7-5--5-------------
A|--3--4------5--3----------5-------------
E|----------------------------------------

This is how I cook that potatoe (with an Am as pappy pointed out)

E|----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5------------3-------------
G|--5--6------7--5-7-7p5------4-------------
D|--5--6------7--7-------7-5--5-------------
A|--3--4------5---------------5-------------
E|----------------------------------------

then I'll do it his way the next time around

E|----------------------------------------
B|--5--6------7--5-------------3-------------
G|--5--6------7--5-------------4-------------
D|--5--6------7--7-7-7p5-----5-5-------------
A|--3--4------5----------7-5---5-------------
E|----------------------------------------

Kind of silly to argue about what position Jerry played out of, play em all. Your hands will get less tired and you will get more variation and interesting things coming out. As someone who learned as a Gary Davis style fingerpicker I don't like to stay in one place on the neck for to long. I had to....
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Postby old man down » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:58 pm

strumminsix,

I'm referring to the G to C chords, back and forth throughout the whole song, the fast alternation strokes. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is just G Gsus4 throughout the whole song, but my best stuff always had the barred C chord rather than the Gsus4.

I'll check it out tonight and see if I like the Gsus4.

If I could have done it easier way back when, I'm sure I would have at least investigated it, yet I stayed with G to C all these years. (Weir's rhythm chords, or what I thought they were).

The Dead morphed the song along the way, and Weir's technique changed dramatically to higher frets because of competition from other players. He had to carry the rhythm in the early 70s and was much more dynamic. In later years he became much more fancy to be heard. For example, I always hated when he'd put the slide on. He was good with Kingfish because he again had to carry the rhythm.

But what do I know, I'm not him. When I was learning this stuff there were no videos to watch, there were very few photos, and songbooks were for open position guitar, piano, and vocals. And then you were on your own, ruining your records, or someone else's records in your family when they weren't home (my brother's records, his stereo needle (had to replace that for him once, he was pissed))
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