Barre chords?

Postby yossarian084 » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:25 pm

Thanks for indulging me, thats what I thought.
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Postby Kenny » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:41 pm

red
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Postby CaptainTrips » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:46 am

before I got into playing the Dead I was like, ah I wont learn barre chords too hard. But once I got my sheet music I saw that as said above Bobby utilizes almost nothing but barre chords, and alot of 7th and 9ths added as well. But after a while it gets better and look on the bright side if you learn it on an acoustic you should be unstoppable on a nice fast action slim electric. Tele in my case :cool: :smile:
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Postby sarraqum » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:14 am

Barre chords take a bit of getting used to, especially with songs like Bertha, the lack of chord changes kills my thumb.

I am sure that when Dead play Bertha live they use open chords...

By the way, is it just my guitar or do A form barre chords sound a bit off? I am not a big fan of playing C on 3rd of D on 5th because they sound, well, flat to me. Or flatter than E shape
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Postby jck_strw » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:27 am

Wow, I forgot I posted this.

So it's been almost two years now and I can definitely say that things have gotten much better. Two things made a big difference:

1. Loosening my grip--this is still kindof hard for me to do sometimes. When I really get into it, I tend to grip waaaay too hard. I have to be very conscious of how hard I'm griping, otherwise I overdo it. I also think my guitar had the action set too high. I took it the local guitar guy and it lowered it considerably. Much better. But I still tend to use too much pressure most times, so I really have to pay attention to it.

2. The GripMaster--I don't want to sound like Ron Popeil here, but this thing is great. I've had it for awhile (I have the "heavy" one), but I never really used it regularly. Then one day I decided to use it M-F. At work, I have to park in a lot that's about 3/4 of a mile away from my office (university parking and I have the privilege of paying for it). So I decided to use the GripMaster every day while I walked from my car to the office (twice a day). After a couple of weeks it made a huge difference and strengthened my hand. I can now easily play that same Bertha without cramping up. Great $15 investment.

YMMV.
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:49 am

I've heard great review on the grip-master.

However, the other side is finger stretch.

Most time muscle build-up and flexibility are diometric opposites.

To overcome that I recommend stretch your abilities during slow songs with less frequent changes. Take the opening to Sugaree for example. Use that and make a G-form barre chord off the 4th and 9th frets for the B and E respectively.
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Postby jck_strw » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:06 pm

strum

You're talking about:

E|--7--
B|--4--
G|--4--
D|--4--
A|-----
E|-----

and

E|--12--
B|--9---
G|--9---
D|--9---
A|------
E|------

for B and E respectively, correct? Those are G-based barre chords? How come they're considered G-based? I only know E-based and A-based barre chords (at least by name).
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Postby tigerstrat » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:24 pm

jck_strw wrote:strum

You're talking about:

E|--7--
B|--4--
G|--4--
D|--4--
A|-----
E|-----

and

E|--12--
B|--9---
G|--9---
D|--9---
A|------
E|------

for B and E respectively, correct? Those are G-based barre chords? How come they're considered G-based? I only know E-based and A-based barre chords (at least by name).


would it help to see the full "G" shape?

E|--7--
B|--4--
G|--4--
D|--4--
A|--(6)--
E|--(7)--

and

E|--12--
B|--9---
G|--9---
D|--9---
A|--(11)---
E|--(12)---
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Postby jck_strw » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:37 pm

Ahhh....

Yes.

Muchas garcias.
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:02 pm

Thanks, TS!

JS, they are often called G-form or G-shaped based on the CAGED method which says, roughly, make the open (cowboy) chords without your first finger then use your first finger to barre on down the fretboard.

Cool, huh?!
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Postby shakedown_04092 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:01 pm

jck_strw wrote:strum

You're talking about:

E|--7--
B|--4--
G|--4--
D|--4--
A|-----
E|-----

and

E|--12--
B|--9---
G|--9---
D|--9---
A|------
E|------

for B and E respectively, correct? Those are G-based barre chords? How come they're considered G-based? I only know E-based and A-based barre chords (at least by name).


I'm gonna throw in 2 cents here. One thing that has helped me understand guitar theory much more is something I've learned in my lessons that I've been taking once a week for the last 3 months or so. I'm sure a lot of you already know about it, but for those who don't, it's something called CAGED.

The idea is simple really. It's a way to play all major chords all the way up the neck using all "open forms". There is also a CAGED for minor chords, but I haven't memorized them completely yet. Anyways, we all know how to play the chords C, A, G, E, & D in the open form, right? Well, by moving your hand up the fret board, all you're doing is simply changing the note.

For example, an open C is played as:

E|---0---
B|---1---
G|---0---
D|---2---
A|---3---
E|-------

Using that same formation, and moving it up 2 frets, you're now playing a D (seen below). But, you have to take into account the open notes on the G string and the high E sting you were playing while playing the C. So a D chord in the "C Barre formation" would look like this:

E|---2---
B|---3---
G|---2---
D|---4---
A|---5---
E|-------


Move everything up 2 more frets, and you'll have an E chord. I love playing this particular formation, not only because it is something different, but in my case, when I play with other guitarists and we're playing an A chord, most people are going to play either the standard open formation on the 2nd fret, or barre it on the fifth fret. By playing it in the C Barre fomation, as seen below, it gives the song a differnt taste:

E|---9----
B|---10---
G|---9----
D|---11--- (i hope that is the right chord there,
A|---12--- i'm at work & don't have my guitar on
E|-------- hand)



Anyways, back to the CAGED thing (I think I got a little off track there). So we've gone over C, and we all know how to play the A Barre formation, right? If we were going to play a D chord using the A Barre formation, it would look like this:

E|---3---
B|---5---
G|---5---
D|---5---
A|---3---
E|-------

You guys already touched on the G formation, which is to say that if we were going to play a D chord using the G formation, it would look like this:

E|---10---
B|---7----
G|---7----
D|---7----
A|---9----
E|---10---

When I first learned this one, it was a little tricky for me, but it gets easier to play and understand as you practice.


I'm sure everyone also knows the E barre formation, that is your standard barre chord using all 6 strings, but for the sake of explaining it, here's what playing a D using the E formation looks like:

E|---10---
B|---10---
G|---11---
D|---12---
A|---12---
E|---10---


Finally, we have the D formation, another tricky one, and unfortunately, I just had a major brain fart, and without my guitar I am having a hard time remembering how to play it. Well that's just great.

Maybe someone else can throw me a bone and post it.....I think it may be this. This would be an A chord using the D formation:

E|---9---
B|---10---
G|---9---
D|---7---
A|-------
E|-------

I think that's right....I hope it is anyways....



I really don't know why I am writing this, but I hope it helps someone out there.

If I screwed any of this up, forgive me and feel free to correct it...
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Postby dpmphoto » Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:49 pm

making things difficult huh. just play an f form at the 3 instead of a barr g. any good guitar player will tell u they hate a barr chord not cause of pain but because it limits u
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:30 am

dpmphoto wrote:making things difficult huh. just play an f form at the 3 instead of a barr g. any good guitar player will tell u they hate a barr chord not cause of pain but because it limits u


An F form is really an E form.

Barre chords rock and I love them. Those who hate them haven't progressed playing just G# & C# off the 4th where you can also play E & F#.
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Postby waldo041 » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:35 pm

dpmphoto wrote:making things difficult huh. just play an f form at the 3 instead of a barr g. any good guitar player will tell u they hate a barr chord not cause of pain but because it limits u


any guitar player that doesn't use some form of barre chord's is being lazy. they in no way limit you if used correctly! hendrix used and even our boy jerry used them and every decent guitar player on this earth has used one form or another. i believe that jerry used them in this song both electric and acoustic, but he used a form similiar to hendrix thumbed barre chord.

E|--3--
B|--3--
G|--4--
D|--5--
A|--5-- <- you could drop this note or put an X here.
E|--3-- <- use your thumb here ala hendrix and if you drop the A string note on the 5 you leave your pinky wide open for accent's on this chord.


E|--3--
B|--3--
G|--4--
D|--5--
A|--5--
E|----- this is how jerry strummed the G (-E type barre chord) in bertha and

with just minimal movement would strum this part of the C (-A type barre chord) for the intro.

E|-----
B|--5--
G|--5--
D|--5--
A|-----
E|-----

to look something like;

this not an actual tab for bertha but rather how to manipulate barre chord's to work for you.

E|-----------------
B|--3--3--5--3--3--
G|--4--4--5--4--4--
D|--5--5--5--5--5--
A|--5--5-----5--5--
E|-----------------

i use my ring finger to hit the C partial barre chord. i believe he use's the similiar technique for bertha and on the intro to Touch of Grey. for the record i believe jerry used all barre chord's live for this song except maybe the Am, bob did all the filling.


peace,
waldo
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Postby strumminsix » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:32 pm

waldo041 wrote: this not an actual tab for bertha but rather how to manipulate barre chord's to work for you.

E|-----------------
B|--3--3--5--3--3--
G|--4--4--5--4--4--
D|--5--5--5--5--5--
A|--5--5-----5--5--
E|-----------------

peace,
waldo


Nice diclaimer dude! Following your Bertha-ish example and going for the Gsus4 instead of C check this one out:

E|-----------------
B|--3--3--3--3--3--
G|--4--4--5--4--4--
D|--5--5--5--5--5--
A|--5--5--5--5--5--
E|-----------------
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