help with my sound

[pharewellphish]

hey, i finally got some money so im gunna startr buying stuff

my bands starting to play more shows and everybodys got good stuff (mostly because they have rich parents) so i need to get some gear that doesnt suck

right now ive got a 40$ fender frontman piece of shit amp, and a 500$ mexican strat with hthe origional pickups (and it needs to get setup again because the tunings getting messed up)

and i have a maximum of abouot 3000 to spend, ideas on what i should get would help

someone told me to get emg's and a mark iv (a mesa boogie 4channel tube amp)(2000$)


so i want to sound similar to jerry but i also like the sound of the tube amps


help would be cool

[strumminsix]

Jerry played a tube amp. If you are looking for a combo, get an old Fender Twin.

Judging by your setup here's what I'd do first:
1. Pickup a Twin
2. Pickup a few select pedals: overdrive, phaser, envelope

Or you can go another route and go for a Mesa Lonestar and then just get a phaser and evelope filter.

[jahozer]

I agree with Strumminsix. You got the money to spend, so get the granddaddy...The Fender twin. Mesas are very good amps, but they sound like mesas. They make me want to play like Brian May for som reason.
The twin will run you about a grand. Get yourself a decent guitar as well. I am not much of a fender fan but thats just my opinion. If your happy with it and it stays in tune, then your good. You can get a mutron if you got 300-500 left over, but the q-trons get you pretty damn close. Get an octave divider. You can also get a multi fx if you want to give you whatever else you don't have in an individual stomp and kind of teach you what each effect is supposed to do, but their worth is debatable by some.
For distortion, I would highly recomend an analogman tube screamer. I have the silver package (trey uses them), and freakin love it. You will also need a delay.
Don't blow all your money on boutique shit. You can always sell what you get if you find you need a fancier pedal. Let us know what you come up with.

[strumminsix]

Nice followup, jahozer!

Note, a Mesa Lonestar doesn't sound like most Mesas. It is possibly the most versatile amp on the market.

2 channels with ch 2 being just slightly hotter than ch 1, 50 or 100 W switchable by channel, tube or diode rectification option, full power or tweed power, seperate tone controls by channel, warm or bright reverb (bright sounds like Fender, warm sounds like studio eqs).

This last point is why I suggested it. The clean channel is near equal to the Fender Twin dry channel. And IIRC Jerry used a Lexicon studio reverb unit in his rig. This will get you his base sound very nicely.

[eyeprod]

i used to own an old fender twin. it was great. highly recommended, but get a vintage one for under a grand if you can. mesa are far too expensive and pro for someone who is not quite sure of what to buy. having the best gear is nice but you can get by on alot less and still rock.

[strumminsix]

The Twin Re-Issues run about $1100. A Lonestar around $1500. A good distortion another $150. Don't need the distortion with the Mesa. Plus the Mesa has many more option and an FX loop.

The guy said $3000 was his budget. Here is what you could do with that:
1500 Lonestar
1000 Fat Strat
$150 Phaser
$150 Envelope
$150 Octave Divider

OR if you want to save a few bucks:
$300 Upgrade your guitar with new pickups and locking tuners
$500 Deluxe reverb
$150 Phaser
$150 Envelope
$150 Octave Divider

OR, if you are fine with digital:
$500 Deluxe reverb
$400 POD XT Live

I use an XT Live for effects and love it! Also, you can go straight into the board and go ampless at gigs!

[tigerstrat]

Jerry did always play through tube preamps, but beginning around the start of 1973, his power amps were always solidstate.

As far as Mesas sounding like Mesas, the mark series have the range to sound startlingly like older Fenders, as that's what they were originally based on.

I think if you just had a random live sound clip from the mid-70's/early 80's (or a studio cut for that matter), even a Fender expert would have serious trouble discerning whether Jerry is preamping through a Mesa or a Fender, unless they know the dates they were used, or have a photo, etc.

But I would still recommend an older Fender ( generally more bang for the buck than uber-pricey Mesas) with no master volume, and w/ spring reverb (THE KEY INGREDIENT)... my recommendations are: mid 60's to early 70s Twin Reverb, Showman Reverb, Bandmaster Reverb, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, or Deluxe Reverb... and get a decent hi-power speaker(s), like JBL 120 series or EVM-12L

You can mod for preamp out to a solidstate amp if you want, but I've never really seen a real need for that, especially w/an 85 watt Twin or Showman

Don't forget high quality cables... but stay away from Monster... horrible litigation-happy bad karma company.

pedals: look for units that are true-bypass, or find out how to convert them yourself.

[strumminsix]

Jerry did always play through tube preamps, but beginning around the start of 1973, his power amps were always solidstate.

As far as Mesas sounding like Mesas, the mark series have the range to sound startlingly like older Fenders, as that's what they were originally based on.

But I would still recommend an older Fender ( generally more bang for the buck than uber-pricey Mesas) with no master volume, and w/ spring reverb (THE KEY INGREDIENT)... my recommendations are: mid 60's to early 70s Twin Reverb, Showman Reverb, Bandmaster Reverb, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, or Deluxe Reverb... and get a decent hi-power speaker(s), like JBL 120 series or EVM-12L

Don't forget high quality cables... but stay away from Monster... horrible litigation-happy bad karma company.

Nice persepctives!

Too often people forget that in the late 70s JG, BW & PL were all playing with solidstate poweramps.

HUGE +1 on no Monster Cables. Don't care for them. I prefer Mogami and LiveWire in that order.

The Lonestar is more similar to their earlier Mark series. The clean channel is damn clean and their drive channel pure overdrive and not distortion (until you have it all cranked). Pricey, yes, not as pricey as an original 65 Twin in good condition.

2 questions since I know you know your stuff (compliment not sarcasm):
#1 - What's with the anti-master volume position? With my Mesa I love a master volume being able to firstly balance between channels and secondly saturate the preamp tubes as much or little as I want and playing with an input gain for true overdrive. Maybe it's just me but when I look accross at my volume resources I love seeing a gain selector by channel, an output by channel and then a master volume.

#2 - What's with Spring Reverb love? As I knew it Jerry didn't like the Reverb on the Twin and preferred Tube Reverb in the 90s and Lexicon Studio reverb before.

Thanks!

[tigerstrat]

I don't really have time to go into the non-master vol issue at the moment... I suppose that's more a matter of taste.

However, the Fender (or Mesa) spring reverb was always a huge part of Jerry's sound. He only began using the Tube Driver reverb in 1993 when he 86'ed the Twin in favor of the Groove Tube Trio, which has no onboard reverb. Why he did any of that I'll never know... It wasn't broke-why fix it? Within a year of that, his sound had devolved into mostly MIDI-blended stuff anyway. I don't know that he ever used the Lexicon's 'verb, unless as a "bump" for certain passages... I always assumed it was mainly for delay and sometimes even flange-y settings, and mostly during Space.

[strumminsix]

Cool. Let me know more when you have time.

But I thought Jerry only went into the dry channel on the twin.

[pharewellphish]

thanks for all the help everyone

what do phasers and octave dividers do?

[waldo041]

for anyone interested here is the owners manual to the Mcintosh MC2300 that jerry used.

http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/Downloads/MC2300_own.pdf

that's one bad mammy jammy!

peace,
waldo

[eyeprod]

simply put, phasers make it swirly and you can control the speed ofthe swirl. if you get a good one, it works alot like a LFO on an analog synth if you crank the speed up high. you can also get some basic auto-wah effects with a phaser.

an octave pedal is only used for single notes, not chords(doesn't sound right). what it does is add a note(s) one or two octaves below the original guitar note. it adds a very nice beefiness to your sound. something jerry used during space sections pretty regularly. i have a boss oc-2 i was using alot, but recently went goo-goo-ga-ga over this electro-harmonix pedal called the micro synth at my local music store. turns out the thing is a few pedals in one, and it has mixing controls to add an octave below and/or an octave higher, as well as a distortion control and a cool adjustable filter sweep that works alot like an enevelope, but for my sound it's much more desireable than the overused, dare i say trendy q-tron family of enevelope filters. just had to add that in there, i really love this pedal and now i can let my other guitarist use my boss octave pedal. it's also one power supply for 3 effects that i use alot, so that's a consideration as well when buying gear.

[waldo041]

#2 - What's with Spring Reverb love? As I knew it Jerry didn't like the Reverb on the Twin and preferred Tube Reverb in the 90s and Lexicon Studio reverb before.
Thanks!

jerry used the Fender Twin's Tube Reverb and liked it very much for many year's, but the lexicon's and Tube Works tube reverb were the verb's sent to the mixer's along with the Trio's preamp when they went to in ear monitor's.

i am unsure as to why or how he used the mcintosh with no speaker's? could any one help me out here?

Back to the Topic;

if i had 3 grand i would pick me up a

1) Twin Reverb (vintage). got's to have a tube preamp and for the power, 85 watt's is nice.
i know that the Groove Tube's Trio is nice and you could get a decent mackie or carvin power head and a speaker cab,but that would be MY second choice it would cost,probably about the same price as a twin reverb.

2) If you already have a strat check out the Carvin Twinblades, or any other of the Humbucker's that fit in a single coil slot. this will help.

3) an expensive one, but if you are going to use analog pedal's the GCX Audio Switcher and foot controller. if you do get one then it is worth grabbing a Unity Gain Buffer for onboard the guitar effect's loop.
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcx.htm
http://www.voodoolab.com/gcontrolpro.htm

If anything left over, or when more money was raised.
4) analog pedals - Q-tron, phase, octave, Dist+ or OD,
5) digital pedal or rack mount Delay (this could be analog but some digital's are good)


either way ROCK ON!


peace,
waldo

[pharewellphish]

so is this the right amp?

http://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-fender-vibr ... dZViewItem

im thinking about buying it so if anything looks wrong let me know