Jerry's natural sound / X3 Live

Jerry's natural sound / X3 Live

Postby bcresci » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:37 am

Have been doing a lot of online research about Jerry's setup and found much good info. I get the general gist that a good Jerry sound can be obtained through the Super 2's and JBL speakers (none of which I have), and then the right combination of effects.

I have two questions (hope it's OK to post two in one thread):

1. Has anyone been able to replicate Jerry's late 80's sound through Line 6's X3 Live.

2. Regarding Jerry's effects....it's obvious when some are used vs. not used (such as the envelope filter). What's not quite as clear is which if any are always on...part of his natural sound. Are the phaser, octave divider, and others only used in songs like Candyman and Space, or are some part of his regular sound?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your patience.
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:40 am

You will not get it 100% with modeling tools period.

You can probably get around 80-90% assuming your fingers are getting the tone right.

As far as I can tell the only "effect" he had on regularly was reverb.
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Postby jenkins » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:50 am

I feel that if your fingers can play the Garcia parts perfectly you could get faairly close, maybe 95%.
I am under the impression that if Garcia played through a line 6 he would still sound exactly like Garcia and we'd be sitting here saying "gee how did he get that line 6 to sound so damn good"

But if you think about his Garcia's basic tone is clean with reverb and shitloads of headroom.

There are definitly other ways to get this tone than with JBL120's and a mcintosh.
But it aint easy.

Doesn't bobby use a line 6 PODpro with ratdog today?
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:55 am

jenkins wrote:I feel that if your fingers can play the Garcia parts perfectly you could get faairly close, maybe 95%.
I am under the impression that if Garcia played through a line 6 he would still sound exactly like Garcia and we'd be sitting here saying "gee how did he get that line 6 to sound so damn good"

But if you think about his Garcia's basic tone is clean with reverb and shitloads of headroom.

There are definitly other ways to get this tone than with JBL120's and a mcintosh.
But it aint easy.

Doesn't bobby use a line 6 PODpro with ratdog today?


You cannot compare preamp circuitry and tubes to emulated modelers. Jerry would not have had the nuances and dynamics and responsiveness with a POD.

Yes, Bobby used a Pro for a while and may still have it but his tone is usually rather uninspiring so I'd take the Bobby endorsement with a grain of salt.
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Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:00 am

Agreed SS....
I think at times I can hit it close with the XT. It is not due to the amp modeling, but due too the fact I do NOT use the Amp modeling in the XT, just effects. No need to model when one already owns the amps being modeled.... LONG LIVE THE (ahem, MY) '64 DR's!!!
I supplement the XT effects with "Stomp" effects, some new (Weeping Demon Wah) and some old as dirt (Thomas Organ Co. Wah). In this case bcresci, the more does not really mean the merrier.... Too many of the old stomp boxes in the "Line" will eat up the natural tone of your guitar and to a greater degree the signal strength in a big way. As I only play in my home "Studio" It is not a big deal from me to plug and unplug boxes as I see fit to suit my mood. however (Strummin' can speak with more authority than I on this...) if I were a real gigging player, I would configure my set up much differently to allow my fingers, guitars, and ALL TUBE pre-amp(s) push the tone, then let the effects operate as designed... creating an effect on a tone I love.

Perhaps in a discombobulated sort of way, that sort of sums up Jerry's sound.... IMO.
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Postby jenkins » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:44 pm

I hear ya strummin, i think you got it right.
Jerry's tone is that warm tube sound that the modelers really just don't do justice. If he switched to line 6 im sure his tone would not have been as good.

I disagree with you on bobby's ratdog tone but taht is a debate for another thread.

For me, I can get a way better jerry tone with a nice tube amp that has good reverb, with no effects at all, than I can with any of the line 6 products.
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Postby bucketorain » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:53 pm

look, we can all agree that it will be pretty dam hard for anyone to get the exact jerry sound. i do agree with the others that its mostly in the fingers....but as he uses effects for certain sounds its still in the fingers with the effects on.

i have finished trying to sound like jerry..i'm going to sound like myself...

in regards to the effects, if you really wan to get close, try to get the same effects that he had...
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:57 pm

I loved Bobby's early and mid 70s tones and occasionally into 77/78...

But around the time he never left the bridge pup and started going with more solidstate in his rig his tone left me uninspired.

To thin and anemic.

I've not heard what I'd call "great tone" from him with RD. I've heard some more pleasing that in the 80s. But sadly he abandons all the low mids with a big scoop in the mids, no lows and that damn bridge pup that doesn't have any sustain or full character.

I like his tone much better with the hallowbody and tube amp with RD.
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Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:04 pm

bucketorain wrote:i have finished trying to sound like jerry..i'm going to sound like myself...


Give that man a cigar.....
Amen.
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Phil
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:26 pm

I'm on the Bozo Bus wrote:
bucketorain wrote:i have finished trying to sound like jerry..i'm going to sound like myself...


Give that man a cigar.....
Amen.
PEACE,
Phil


Nice!

I think the best compliment I've gotten was, you sound very much like a combination of Bobby and You!
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Postby High Peaks » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:08 pm

A friend and fellow head once described Garcia's tone to me like this:

He simply had the absolute perfect Fender tone!!

Of course the Fender tone is all about crystal clear sound, tons of headroom and gobs of spring reverb.

On top of that, Jerry boosted his mids with little bass and a good amount of treble.

If you start with a good silver, or blackface twin you can get close by switching out different tube combinations to your fancy.

JBL's are important as well as dimarzio's. BTW- not to highjack the topic, but-- Does anyone have any Dual sounds? I was wondering if it was the D120's or pu's in Tiger( early 80's) that gave him that slight breakup in his tone. It is my current favorite era for tone.
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Postby bcresci » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:19 am

OK...good advice from all. I suppose the best way to both get an enjoy Jerry's sound is to throw a bootleg into the CD and kick back.
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Postby Pete B. » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:34 am

I would also reccomend jamming along with DVD's, and watching how Jer touches the instrument.
He gets alot of tonal distinction from bright to dark by simply changing the area at which the pick hits the strings (closer to or farther from the bridge).
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Postby strumminsix » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:03 am

Pete B. wrote:I would also reccomend jamming along with DVD's, and watching how Jer touches the instrument.
He gets alot of tonal distinction from bright to dark by simply changing the area at which the pick hits the strings (closer to or farther from the bridge).


Hmmm, may have to contest distance from the bridge. While I'm sure he does that, at times, I believe me more often focused on distance from the pickup he was using.
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:12 am

strumminsix wrote:
Pete B. wrote:I would also reccomend jamming along with DVD's, and watching how Jer touches the instrument.
He gets alot of tonal distinction from bright to dark by simply changing the area at which the pick hits the strings (closer to or farther from the bridge).


Hmmm, may have to contest distance from the bridge. While I'm sure he does that, at times, I believe me more often focused on distance from the pickup he was using.


Gotta go with Pete on this one- it's the differing string tensions relative to the bridge that are the reason I move the picking up and down the strings.
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