Covering the Dead's Sound the Easiest

Chat about Equipment Info

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:39 am

Robbins' original sounds similarly upbeat. This thread has been jacked!!! :lol:
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:03 pm

No Felina here..... Plenty 'o cowboys though. Horse rustlin' is out... I took a cab.

As we have successfully hi-jacked this thread...
Wasn't it Steve Martin who attempted a sad song on a banjo...
Yikes... 4:30 AM wake up call for a 6:30 flight.
I'll be singing Promised Land all the back to good 'ol Birmingham, No Greyhound for me.
I guess I have now officially KILLED this thread as this post has no point at all....

Hmm... Sirius just started Brokedown Palace covered by Adrienne Young... Pretty generic cover but sweet voice. Cool fiddle solo... She must sing both kinds of music.. Country AND Western.

PEACE
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Postby BlobWeird » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:05 am

AugustWest wrote:If you watched Commanche Moon this week you would understand what all the fuss is about with the horse stealing. Val kilmer and westerns are sure to please (think Tombstone.) I pretty sure marty robbins himself said in an interview once that horse stealing is probably what got everyone in an uproar. I could be wrong though.


Theres a movie Comanche Moon? Does it have characters named Gus and Call? If so I read the book and it was awesome!
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Postby pappypgh » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:09 am

I must add to this post - eventhough it's WAY off original topic...

One of my best friends once gave me the READER'S DIGEST VERSION of Marty Robbins' "El Paso":

"Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I met a woman, got shot and died."

:lol:
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"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:11 am

One of my oldest pals used to always be flying down with our other pal to El Paso to go rock climbing at Hueco Tanks, a few miles outside of town.


no word on if they could see Rose's Cantina below.

He went on to be one of those truly sick climbers that go out on overhangs upside down and hanging from 1 finger and 1 toe, etc... 5.13 stuff if that means anything to anybody (siiiip) yyyyep sure enough I think I pulled a short 5.10 once in southern IL or was that Devil's Lake WI... regardless, it was extremely harrowing. I loved the sport and I've always been an acrophile, but it's way too hard on the fingers annd hands for a guitarist. I could see a long range conflict between the kind of toughness conditioning required and having fine control and intricacy of rhythm to play an instrument, and I ultimately gave the sport up completely. any climber/guitarists out there?
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby waveformfreq » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:58 pm

To the original poster,

Concentrate on your expression, feeling, and exploration. These three qualities (even if they are nebulous) are what made the Dead sound truly magical. Don't listen to all these "tone" cowboys, you can get to that magical space without spending lots of $$.

Maybe you might even find a sound of your own along the way.
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:40 pm

waveformfreq wrote:To the original poster,

Concentrate on your expression, feeling, and exploration. These three qualities (even if they are nebulous) are what made the Dead sound truly magical. Don't listen to all these "tone" cowboys, you can get to that magical space without spending lots of $$.

Maybe you might even find a sound of your own along the way.


sheesh... you're WAY off-topic :lol:
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby Pete B. » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Here's an important tone mod...

Image
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:57 pm

Yeah- but do I use table saw or what to do that mod?
:lol:
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Any more vids coming?
Let It Grow ?
Thanks the last vid was cool. :cool:
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Postby weedar » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:19 pm

I had a blast reading this thread, you guys are fun :smile:

The only time I feel the Dead-sound is when I stop
thinking about the songs and just play..

Man I had El Paso on my mind every day while I worked
at a warehouse a few years ago, I couldn't get it
outta my mind. Damn that Felina..
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Postby jenkins » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:23 pm

assuming you can already play pretty well ill give u what i think is the best trick, bar none. Use 2 amps at once. I think the true beuty to jerry's tone is that it always sounded perfect. It was high pithced-yet low pithced at the same time; it was distorted-yet clean at the same time. it had reverb but was clean at the same time.
Use 2 amps. have one set with no reverb at all and more of a higher pithced sound, one that is good for hearing notes on the G B and high E. Then set another amp with a really warm, rich tone. have it set more for low end and crank up the reverb. use a A/B switch or another pedal to split it (i use a line6 delay modeller and run my guitar and all effects mono into it and ouput form the line6 as stereo to my two amps). I put all my effects in line before the splitter so they go into both amps equally.
Using dual amps is the easiest way to get jerry tones that I know of. Dual amps will do much more for your tone than any effects you will buy. Try it, even if you amps arent that great it makes a huge difference. I kow someone who is running 2 shitty peavey amps and his tone is great.

there is definetly no easy way to recreate the deads sound. IN my first few years of playing seriousy i spent thousands of dolalrs on equptment trying to recreate jerry's sound and could barely do it at all.
Now that ive been playing for years ad can actually play well i find I can recreat jerry's sound fairly well using basically any amp and guitar.

Like someone said earler in the thread :"its all in the fingers" and this is true. jerry constanty chages his equiptment and still always sounded like jerry.
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Postby tigerstrat » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:20 pm

So, as you play up the scale from the E,A,& D strings, you have to then stomp on the A/B box to switch to the other amp to sound good for the G,B & E strings? Sounds tricky!

OK maybe that wasn't what you meant but I say one decent amp is way better and simpler than trying to achieve some slippery balance between two crappy ones.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby strumminsix » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:40 pm

jenkins wrote:assuming you can already play pretty well ill give u what i think is the best trick, bar none. Use 2 amps at once. I think the true beuty to jerry's tone is that it always sounded perfect. It was high pithced-yet low pithced at the same time; it was distorted-yet clean at the same time. it had reverb but was clean at the same time.
Use 2 amps. have one set with no reverb at all and more of a higher pithced sound, one that is good for hearing notes on the G B and high E. Then set another amp with a really warm, rich tone. have it set more for low end and crank up the reverb. use a A/B switch or another pedal to split it (i use a line6 delay modeller and run my guitar and all effects mono into it and ouput form the line6 as stereo to my two amps). I put all my effects in line before the splitter so they go into both amps equally.
Using dual amps is the easiest way to get jerry tones that I know of. Dual amps will do much more for your tone than any effects you will buy.


I love the way you are thinking but totally disagree with your suggestion to obtain it.

Firstly, Jerry didn't use 2 amps for most of his career so right off the bat it's further away from his rig.

However, you did hit on something I've not heard stated before but ears have heard it: Clean yet OD, Reverb yet dry, bright but dark etc...

The first thing I thought of was did Jerry split his signal wet and dry and mix it back in? All you'd need is a little dry to help off set the dry.

So, now let's talk about your suggestions of 2 amps and why and apply it to 1 amp with a small mixer that has a parallel FX loop which has a mix knob.

Set the mix to say 90% wet (10% dry) and put all your FX in the loop (yes, reverb too and a hi quality EQ) then send that mixed signal to your amp?

Maybe that is the mystery knob that is on his rig?! And when he turns it down that low mix of 10% audible on stage but too soft to open the noise gates to make it off the board?!

What do you think?
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Postby pappypgh » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:39 pm

I dunno....when I think of Jerry's sound, I hear drenched in reverb...but not the average reverb. Not solid state reverb. Put a Fender Twin (Jerry's predominant rig through the mid-late 70s) up to about 7 on the reverb setting and let the fingers and the picking take over. If you listen to 80s Jerry, there's PLENTY of reverb. His tones are controlled mainly w/ his fingers. He had his warm, fat tone (neck pickups) and his out-of-phase tone (bridge pickup) as his main clean sounds. Then he had his distortion sounds. I hear those 2 main clean sounds from him and neither of them are "clean yet dirty". In the 70s, his Fender Twin Reverb amp would give when he'd really lay into a note...he'd get SOME overdrive, but only because he got on it physically w/ a pick.
I'm no expert by any means (you can listen to what I do with a Stratocaster into a Fender Blues DeVille 4x10 on my band's website: www.theCAUSEjams.com )...I struggle to get close, but it's good enough for me and I still get to sound like me with hints of Garcia. I guess I'm not after complete reproduction, tho. Whoever said, "IT'S ALL IN THE FINGERS" has it. Listen to Frank Zappa, go and buy all the stuff he had HIS guitars running through and tell me you sound just like him. You can't. No one can. It's ALL IN THE FINGERS, BABY!!!

:cool:

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"Once in awhile, you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - R. Hunter

"If we had any nerve at all, if we had any real balls as a society, or whatever you need, whatever quality you need, real character, we would make an effort to really address the wrongs in this society, righteously." - Jerry Garcia
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Postby tigerstrat » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:25 pm

I don't hear any dry going on either. I do know what you mean by "clean yet OD" though, and imo thats just a matter of setting the amp gain (or the preamp volume)to just begin to clip right in the sweet spot of the guitar's dynamic range.

Which is why I don't quite understand this thing about the importance of getting a Twin (or Super etc) that is non-Master Volume! Or if it has Master Vol, removing it. When I bought my 68(non-Master) Dual Showman Reverb, I did so with the intention of tapping the preamp to output to a solidstate power amp. So I set the Fender volume to what sounds good tonally and then my power amp volume knob becomes my master volume. But if you are just running a non-Master amp as a regular preamp/power amp combination (and I did this for the first couple of months I owned my DSR), your gain AND your master volume are effectively "ganged" together so that when you find a gain setting that sounds good to you, the overall volume might easily be too loud to use on some stages. So then you have to compromise... which blows, my friends.

And yes he did seem to run it a little hotter in the 70's (...also used a bunch of different pickups)... a LOT hotter in say 67-69.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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