The Kenny Archives

Musical Theory Abound!!!

Postby strumminsix » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:53 pm

mutant_dan wrote:
mrMix wrote:I'm all for collaboration. I posted my file in the Files section of the KennysArchives yahoo group

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/KennysArchive/

PM me and I can also email it out.



Nicely done....

Thanks,
Dan Cole....


w0w! Nicely done indeed!
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Postby mrMix » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 pm

Thanks.
I related much of the document back to my own theory studies. Kenny had great depth to his knowledge and gave us terrific insight. Going over the posts in the kennyarchive, I think there is even more information to cull and flesh out the document. Was thinking this would make a great wiki...thoughts?
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Postby phpbb » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:22 pm

I've had this thing sitting lonely and empty for some time, if you guys think it's a good place for this, then we can go for it..

http://wiki.rukind.org/
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Postby gratephulphish123 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:55 pm

phpbb wrote:I've had this thing sitting lonely and empty for some time, if you guys think it's a good place for this, then we can go for it..

http://wiki.rukind.org/


you mean rukind can write the official wiki on the dead... wow i would be very interested in contributing to this in any way :lol: too cool
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Postby mrMix » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:38 am

I'm Game. I'll start constructing the content for "Wiki" reading. Not sure if this is a Grateful Dead Wiki as much as a Wiki dedicated to music/guitar theory related to the playing style and music of the grateful dead.
Thoughts?
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Postby phpbb » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:06 am

It can be whatever we want it to be - my original idea is kinda on the backburner now, so the page can be modified to reflect music theory quite easily.
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Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:18 am

Thats cool.
Whats "Phentermine"? :oops:
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Postby strumminsix » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:18 am

phpbb wrote:It can be whatever we want it to be - my original idea is kinda on the backburner now, so the page can be modified to reflect music theory quite easily.


What was your original idea?

Whatever we do shouldn't exclude that.
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Postby mrMix » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:26 am

strumminsix wrote:
phpbb wrote:It can be whatever we want it to be - my original idea is kinda on the backburner now, so the page can be modified to reflect music theory quite easily.


What was your original idea?

Whatever we do shouldn't exclude that.

Agreed!
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Re: The Kenny Archives

Postby old man down » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:30 pm

OK, I'm still distilling down the Kenny Archives.

I'm down to 16 pages, font 10.

Most of his stuff is dribble. Like craps, he tends to make his point the hard way.

But I did come across something that has me perplexed:

1. We will always be dealing around the number 7
either we will delete scale degrees or alter them or
make additions but we will always deal around the number 7.


It can be found in context below.

Why would he say this? I think he is refering to the Locrian mode, that it is not part of the Major sounding modes, nor part of the minor sounding modes, and that maybe he found that it is a pivot mode. But everywhere else he suggests that the center of the universe is the Ionian mode, that everything is compared to it, yet the Ionian mode would mean that everything would always deal around the number 1.

What do you guys think?



"Everybody run the homecoming queens got a gun"

Well let's go over the numerical aspect some more.

As mentioned all scales are compared to Ionian.

So let's give the scale degrees for the modal names
we have presented.

Ionian 1-2-3-4-5-6-7

Dorian 1-2-flat3rd-4-5-6-flat7th

Phyrgian 1-flat2nd-flat3rd-4-5-flat6th-flat7th

Lydian 1-2-3-sharp4-5-6-7

Mixolydian 1-2-3-4-5-6-flat7th

Aeolian 1-2-flat3rd-4-5-flat6th-flat-7th

Locrian 1-flat2nd-flat3rd-4-flat5th-flat6th-flat7th

Above is the scale degrees for the seven modualar names.

If it helps great! If not absorb it from this standpoint.

1. We will always be dealing around the number 7
either we will delete scale degrees or alter them or
make additions but we will always deal around the number 7.

2. All these modes are in the patterns already presented.
We are just relating them to Ionian which is regularly done
but as I have said relating minor scales to minor scales
and major scales to major scales probably will make it easier
for you to toggle back and forth if you'd like.

Aeolian -

Dorian is Aeolian with a sharp 6th.

Phyrgian is Aeolian with a flat 2nd

Ionian -

Lydian is Ionian with a sharp 4th

Mixolydian is Ionian with a flat 7th

3. Remember get the patterns in your finger memory play
them over and over and over and over again.
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Re: The Kenny Archives

Postby old man down » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:36 pm

Maybe this will answer it. He maybe meant to say we will always be dealing around 7 notes, that is, 7 notes together as a collection of notes. You can have them increase to 12 notes (chromatic) or decrease to pentatonic (5 notes) but seven is the norm.
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Re: The Kenny Archives

Postby waldo041 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:28 pm

old man down wrote:Maybe this will answer it. He maybe meant to say we will always be dealing around 7 notes, that is, 7 notes together as a collection of notes. You can have them increase to 12 notes (chromatic) or decrease to pentatonic (5 notes) but seven is the norm.


i believe he was referring to this statement at the end. although the diminished locrian is excluded from this statement, it also is 7 notes and the 7th mode. all the major and minor modes are 7 notes, and he is merely stating that the major scale is 7 notes, as well as each of the other 6 modes = 7 total. once you learn these 7, yes, you can take away 2 notes and work in pentatonics, or add notes and work with chromatic's but the 7 note major scale(ionian) is the basis of his statement as all the other 7 note modes are based around it. although he seperates the minor(Aeloian) scale and points out how both other minor modes differ from it and does the same for the major mode(Ionian) and the other 2 major modes. but you have to remember that Aeolian is also a derivative of the Major Scale as well as the Minor examples given. he merely here is showing a different way to look at the major and minor modes minus the diminished locrian mode, which is the 7th mode. they all evolve around these 7 note modes which are 7 in total, even when your adding(chromatic), deleting(pentatonic) or altering them.


Aeolian -

Dorian is Aeolian with a sharp 6th.

Phyrgian is Aeolian with a flat 2nd

Ionian -

Lydian is Ionian with a sharp 4th

Mixolydian is Ionian with a flat 7th


peace,
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Re: The Kenny Archives

Postby jahozer » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:11 pm

Wow, still distilling from 07???? :lol:
Thats great! Its like a time warp or something!
Yeah, he is talking about the 7 scale degrees or intervals. All the modes are 7 degree runs from the same scale, just at different starting points. Any of the other chromatic notes are accidentals. They add flavor to the original in the box scale degrees, and work to add dissonance to make the landing back on your home note or tonic that much sweeter. But that is more a function of harmony rather than single note theory. The key to harmony and melody is to establish a home or tonic with familiar intervals, and then get away from it in some interesting way. But as furthur out you go the more tension there is because the brain wants it to go back home, and resolve in some way. That is why a 7th is a minor 7th. It ads tension to make the tonic sound more resolved. For example,play a diminished run. Alone it sounds tense, but play the corresponding diminished chord before it. NOW it sounds really dissonant and full of mysterious tension,

See, I get confused when you talk about flatted this or that interval. Thats ok when talking about chord coloration, but its not necessary when talking about modes, or single note theory.

To me modes are a way to set up your phrasing. I think of it all as one big major scale with different starting points to give me different moods. If you think of it that way, the relative minors make sense, and you dont have to think so much about playing through the chords. HOWEVER, this is a bit of a mistake. if in Dorian mode, think only of that mode, and not its home major scale. I have trouble doing this, and thus my phrasing suffers and gets too major-y.

If you notice that a good amount of Dead songs start on the fifth (V) you realize that its why the mixolydian sounds right so much of the time. Its what gives the songs like franklins and rider the happy major feel that goes on forever.
Take a song like loser. The dorian mode works here because its a moody minor feel that starts on the ii. The key is G, but if you play in a dorian, you get that strong feel that Jerry does. Its where the melody is written.
Im sure I will read this again and see all sorts of mistakes, but hey, I luuuuv talkin bout theory...
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