Wiring Pickups "Out of Phase"

Wiring Pickups "Out of Phase"

Postby Laytonco » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:32 pm

Hey folks,
On Weir's Professional & Cowboy Fancy, the middle single coil pickup was apparently wired "out of phase" to the humbuckers resulting in that thin quacky tone he had. Has anyone here modded their pickups to be out of phase? Did you get that Weir tone? I have a Gibson SG and am having visions (hopefully not hallucinations) of adding a single coil pickup between the two humbuckers and having it wired out of phase. Any thoughts? I've been looking for an Ibanez Professional on Ebay and Cragislist but the ones I've found would need to be modded to add the single coil. Plus they seem to be fetching high prices to begin with. Just curious.

Gil
User avatar
Laytonco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Denver

Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:20 pm

Hey Gil,
I have what I think is a hybrid Artist myself... 1979 model with HBs at the neck and bridge and each has in/out of phase as well as HB "Mode".

One of the old stand-by tones I run with on "Bobby parts:
Run both pick-ups and leave one in phase the other out of phase and I tend to get that "quacky" tone to which you refered. I also alternate between which pick up is in or out of phase. I think it may also have to do with a little comp being in the loop.

I am in the process of getting some of the old effects with an "Effect off - By pass" so my entire effect string is not available to me now. During the last week or so, I have been playing through a ...gulp... Line 6 Spyder II.... I know, I know.. Solid State.. My apologies to the glowing glass gods.

I am going to re-configure an old Charvel Strat (with the standard 3 SC PU with 5 position switch configuration) as a "Convertable" type guitar. I am going down the 'ol midi road and throw a Roland "Trigger" in front of the bridge, a HB-S-HB with "taps" and maybe a UGB .. Who knows, still in the planning stages.
My point you may ask?
I'm not really sure...

Maybe it was....., drop a couple of hundred on a Strat type copy or a decent playing HB-HB with a pickguard and experiment away... I cannot picture carving up my Artist to drop a SC in...

I don't know.. just a thought.
PEACE my friend,
Phil
I'm on the Bozo Bus
Billy
Billy
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Postby strumminsix » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:55 pm

As far as I understand if you have tapable HBs you can run them out of phase.

I'm considering having this done sometime in the next few weeks to my Jackson.
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby Chuckles » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:08 pm

I've got an Ibanez Musician with the taps for in/out... and the out of phase isn't very dramatic. Maybe it's the Super 88's (I'm thinking of swapping them out for Barden duo-coils), but the difference is reall, really subtle.

Then again, listen to some old Peter Green and you'll hear a really funky sound from his pups...
Seems like I've been here before...

The Road's Facebook Page (including links to tunage) is here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Road/ ... 200?ref=nf
User avatar
Chuckles
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: DC

Postby Laytonco » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:09 pm

Strummin, let me know how that goes. I have a Schecter with tapables. I'm wondering if it's just a matter of reversing the two connection on one pickup. If, so i could test it on that ( and reverse it if it's not good).
User avatar
Laytonco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Denver

Postby High Peaks » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:17 pm

Hey Strummin' -- How do you like your Jackson?? I used to play in a band where the other guitar player played a Jackson. It was great for the harder rockers, i just never thought it got a smooth tone. Kind of tinny. It sounded almost like a strat. Is yours loaded with HB's or single coils?
User avatar
High Peaks
Senior Member
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:38 am
Location: Upstate New York

Postby strumminsix » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:33 pm

Will do, Laytonco.

High Peaks wrote:Hey Strummin' -- How do you like your Jackson?? I used to play in a band where the other guitar player played a Jackson. It was great for the harder rockers, i just never thought it got a smooth tone. Kind of tinny. It sounded almost like a strat. Is yours loaded with HB's or single coils?


Well, every Jackson is different. Mine is a tone machine.
Mahogany body and neck
Neck thru design
Strings are loaded from under for sustain
About 5.5 lbs so it's a pleasure to play for hours
Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates in the neck
SD Custom 5 in the bridge
Nice lower action for easy of playing
Fairly flat fretboard for easy slide

Love it!
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby Dozin » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:02 pm

I think the secret to what your trying to do is to have active pickups. You just don't get that same snap out of each string when your per-sey "Weiring out"

Here's a real helpful hint to get you in the ball park of the Weir sound any year. cut all bass, cut most hi, mid at 5-7 on your amp. A little reverb too, it gives that little sustain to the chimes of your strumming.

My buddy plays with the same settings as above with his Ibanez AR500. EQ on and plays through the bridge pup only, tri-sound on phase reversal - results in much lower output volume and more noise, but it nails the Weir 77/78 sound. Super 88s too.

I play with 3 SC Bartolini's with SPC control and I like the 80's Weir sound I get.

My other buddy, same settings with SC EMG's with SPC and he's in the same boat as me.

I think active pickups and the amp settings will help tremendously.

Another important thing is it's in the fingers! That's what Weir says.

my .02
Image
"If you get confused,...
Listen to the music play"
User avatar
Dozin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Postby Laytonco » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:02 am

Dozin, Thank you!!!! I have active pickups on my Alembic Tribute which is my main geetar. But of course, I was thinkin of messing with a guitar and the Alembic would never be messed with! That's why I was thinking of using the SG. When I play the Alembic, "everyone else" says I am really close to the Weir 77 tone but it doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds like I am maybe 50-60% there. But I am going to try these settings on the amp. Right now, I have the bass set to about 30%, Mid off, and treble at anywhere from 50-60%. I'll try out these new settings. Thanks and Peace,

Gil

PS: I once asked Bob if I could have his fingers. He declined. What an arse!!!
User avatar
Laytonco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Denver

Postby Dozin » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:10 am

Yeah, I thought it was all in the treble too and the presence control in the guitar. I tried those settings and now you can almost plug in any guitar and kind of nail something very similar to "That Sound".

Let me know how you make out
Image
"If you get confused,...
Listen to the music play"
User avatar
Dozin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Postby Laytonco » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:17 pm

Dozin! Yeah baby! I played for about an hour and found that on the Heritage Patriot, Treble 2, Mid 7, and Bass 0 nailed it with the Alembic Tribute! Wow! I had fun. I also messed with my end of chain EQ and flattened it a bit. Not good. So I put the EQ back in the smiling position and man oh man, it's definitely soundin Bobby! Thanks man, once again...


Peace,

Gil
User avatar
Laytonco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:38 pm
Location: Denver

Postby strumminsix » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:06 pm

Yup, that's how you get Bobby tone alright.

To be honest, I prefer being more Bobbyesque.

Never have I liked the bridge pick-up for rhythm.

So I use the neck and drop the bass to a notch above thin & tin then use the mid pot to cover my low mids and my highs to compensate for the bridge pup and none of my amps have presence but if they did I wouldn't use it since that's knob isn't part of the tonestack proper.

Dozin - you are a wealth of awesome info!
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby Dozin » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:52 am

Strumminsix, I'm not sure what you mean why you wouldn't use a presence control. The main one is in the guitar, the SPC control. The Presence control really is the fine tune of how you throttle your highs. Weir has had one in his guitars since 83. His Cocobola Thru-body Blackknife had only a SPC and Volume. It really gives a nice boost to the output signal.
Image
"If you get confused,...
Listen to the music play"
User avatar
Dozin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Postby strumminsix » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:48 am

Dozin wrote:Strumminsix, I'm not sure what you mean why you wouldn't use a presence control. The main one is in the guitar, the SPC control. The Presence control really is the fine tune of how you throttle your highs. Weir has had one in his guitars since 83. His Cocobola Thru-body Blackknife had only a SPC and Volume. It really gives a nice boost to the output signal.


Presence actually means 2 things:
1 - a frequency band higher than traditional treble
2 - but it also controls negative feedback in the power amplifier section
http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/ampbasic.htm

The one on the guitar I would use. Not the one on an amp.
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby Dozin » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:20 pm

I bought a Dean Markley preamp like Weir used during the 85-89 era. I have a picture of him using it and the presence control is set at around 7. I don't think it distorts at all it just get's extremly bright if you crank up the presence. I run the amp hot too, master volume and preamp around 8.
Image
"If you get confused,...
Listen to the music play"
User avatar
Dozin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Next

Return to Bobby Tone

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest