Urgent!! FOTM Scales

Urgent!! FOTM Scales

Postby mikeohiostate » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:10 pm

Hey All, Im kinda in a bind here--

Can someone please tell me the Key of this song, the scales (please add root note) I could use with it.

Thanks!
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:25 pm

Mike it goes from B to A the whole song. 2 majors one step apart makes then the 4 & 5 therefore in the key of E.

Mainly I'm rhythm but can do melody type of lead guitar....

If I were to play lead over it I'd either give it an E scale or more likely a B mixolydian or possibly Abm pentatonic....

That was a brain dump as I grabbed the acoustic.

What sounds best to my ears is a B mixo on the B and when it comes to the A move into F#m penta and use the B in that to tranistion back.
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Postby Billbbill » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:22 pm

I play mostly B mixo throughout. Think of what chord you're playing over (A or B) and show some resonance to the chord by using the notes that make up the chord within your lead line. I.e. pay attention to the notes A, E & C# while playing over the A, and B, Eb, & F# while playing over the B chord.

strumminsix mentions pentatonics and the F#m scale. F#m pent is the same notes as A pent and works over the A as does B pent over the B. Some sprinkling of the flat 3rd (the blues note) and chromaticism works well also.
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Postby mikeohiostate » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:32 pm

thanks for the help!

I always thought it was in the key of B. I'm still not certain on how to determine the key of a song.
thanks everyone
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Re: Urgent!! FOTM Scales

Postby jck_strw » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:58 pm

mikeohiostate wrote:Im kinda in a bind here-


I'm curious to hear the story behind this.
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Postby ebick » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:25 pm

mikeohiostate wrote:I'm still not certain on how to determine the key of a song.


Take a look at this.

http://community.rukind.com/viewtopic.php?t=256
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:55 pm

Scales... I've got a book that might help you with that.

But think of it like this:

Steps in a scale 1 whole whole half whole whole half
Notes in a scale 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Music theory for scale I ii iii IV V vi vii`

Notice the capital roman numberals?
Those are the majors, the lowers are minor and 7 diminshed

See how the only there is only one place where 2 major chords can be a half step apart? That's if they are the 4 and 5!
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Postby strumminsix » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:57 pm

Billbill - I love chromatics. But what an art to get right. Firstly just glossing over notes and then the impact you need to build as you hit that next intentionally not with authority.

Took me a very long to get it sounding right and still I am apprehensive about playing them on stage.
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Postby Billbbill » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:20 am

strumminsix

I never viewed chromatics as a very 'weighty' issue. Partly, likely because I mostly use 3 note runs, sometimes back to back, 4 note runs less frequently, and longer runs rarely.

I suppose the first issue is 'do the notes work' as in do they sound right. I've always done this by ear and not from any musical theory or technical perspective.

Next is should you play them and where, which is what I think you're alluding to. That's a loaded question and depends on many factors, not the least of which is 'what am I trying to say with these notes?'.

Of course that can be said about any notes of any scale so in the end I think you try it in different ways and see what works best for you and where.

Your trepidation is understood but unless you really hit a clanker of a note, most listeners wouldn't know the difference anyway, although when it works, it will add to the lead line in ways that only chromatics can add.

For the benefit of whoevers interested here's some chromo runs for this song.

I won't show any resolving to the root, for the most part anyway. I'll show going 'up' the neck but you can go down as well.

Whiles over the B chord: (drop back a step for over A)


E-------------------------------
B-------------------------------
G-------------------------------
D------------------4-5-6---(6)-7-8-9-
A--4-5-6---6-7-8-9-------------------
E-------------------------------

Sometimes you can augment the above when transitioning from chord to chord.


Here's a sample lick I'll make up. I'll pack it with chromo's thus it's not likely I'd throw this much in one line although you could. But because you could doesn't necessarily mean you should. It's that pesky taste thing, and the old 'does it sound like shit' test.


--B--------------------------A----------------

E-------------------------------
B----------------------------------------------
G----------------------------------------4-5-6-
D-9-9-8-7---7--------------------------7
A---------9---9-8-7-5h6--------4-5-6-7------
E-----------------------7--6-5------

still-A-----------B

E-------------------------------
B-------------------------------
G--6-7-8-9---9-10-11------------
D-------------------------------
A-------------------------------
E-------------------------------


While were on fotm here's a jerry lick you'll recognize if you don't already know it. A fun one that I like.

---B-----------------A-------------------B

E-------------------------------
B----7-------------7--------------
G------9--9-8--8-9-----9-8--8-6------6----
D--9-----------------7-------------7---7-9
A-------------------------------
E-------------------------------
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Postby strumminsix » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:41 am

Right on, thanks Billbill!!!

I just tried out what you recommended and sounds good!

Maybe I should have been more clear. My apprehension is because in my band I'm the role of Bobby and don't get much lead time beyond fills which I am fine with but that means when I stand up in the mix it better be on 100%!

So that's why I mostly lean on old favs like maj, min, mixo and keep the chromatics to bluesy tunes where I feel they are safer for my opportunities!

Thanks again!
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Postby Billbbill » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:36 pm

Good deal.

I should mention that B Ionian is also workable here as shown by this signature lick from this tune. This, off the top of my head so it may be a little off, but it's the generic version I'd suppose. Don't know how I didn't think of this when citing scales for this tune. :?

---B-------------A-----

E--7-6-4-----------5-4------
B--------7-4-------------
G------------6-4-2----------
D-------------------------

Hmm? I'm thinking (ironically) that the three notes on the G string are a chromo run. Sounds more right to me. -4-3-2

So point being this could be expanded upon and the Bb (C#?) note used as seen fit.
Last edited by Billbbill on Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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actually

Postby XxRouninxX » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:36 pm

i tried the Abm pentatonic over a good fotm jam (dicks picks 29) and its actually B major pentatonic, right notes wrong tonality. If you play that scale aiming for B it sounds nice.

Actually as i use it more im glad someone pointed that out to me, sometimes simpler is better, it has a really nice positive glow to it.

oh yeah and B mixo works well too


edit: i didn't see that someone already pointed that out, lol, anyways great song
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Re: Urgent!! FOTM Scales

Postby Mick » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:39 am

mikeohiostate wrote:Hey All, Im kinda in a bind here--

Can someone please tell me the Key of this song, the scales (please add root note) I could use with it.

Thanks!


I thought this had all been hashed out before, but I don't see it in the threads below. The "find two chords that are one whole step apart" thing is a useful tool, and probably works 80+% of the time, maybe 90+%. However, this is one of the times that it doesn't work. I agree with Ed's tabs that the chords are A major and B major, but the song is written in the key of B. If I am playing along with the boys, I generally use B Ionian, and have never had a problem with it. I like all the rest of the tab, basically plays on the A and B chords. If I am just listening more than playing, I will tend to play something like this:

E|-----------7--7--7--------7--------------5--5--5--------5-----
B|--------7--------------7-----7--------5--------------5-----5--
G|-----8--------------8--------------6--------------6-----------
D|--9-----------------------------7-----------------------------
A|--------------------------------------------------------------
E|--------------------------------------------------------------

Which is just arpeggios of the A and B chords as well, but it appears to me that if I was in a band, it probably wouldn't hurt anything if I just quietly played that the whole time (because I am not a great guitar player).
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Re: actually

Postby Mick » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:46 am

XxRouninxX wrote:i tried the Abm pentatonic over a good fotm jam (dicks picks 29) and its actually B major pentatonic, right notes wrong tonality. If you play that scale aiming for B it sounds nice.

Actually as i use it more im glad someone pointed that out to me, sometimes simpler is better, it has a really nice positive glow to it.

oh yeah and B mixo works well too


The B mixolydian SCALE will give you the notes of the KEY of E major. I find this sounds rough when soloing along with the band (but so can B Ionian, depending on when and if I hit the 7s) since every version I have is played in the key of B, but I would think this could work if your band was expecting it. The flatted sevenths in B mixo would give it a dominant feel, and as long as it is resolved, I would think all would be well. I would have to screw around with it for a while to come up with a more informed view.
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