fender twin: blackface vs silverface

Chat about Equipment Info

fender twin: blackface vs silverface

Postby zoppenheimer » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:03 pm

So...
I've got a real nice blackface twin (65 reissue). It's used, but in great condition, sounds amazing. The only thing I would like to have is a master volume knob, so I can OD it at lower volumes. There's a silverface twin at the same shop I got mine from that's roughly the same price and has that feature. My question is if I were to trade my blackface in for the silverface, what difference would it make for the sound, or the overall quality of the amp, which do you guys prefer? Is there something I could do to install a feature like this without having to give up my current amp?
zoppenheimer
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Amherst MA

Postby strumminsix » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:32 pm

Overdrive a Twin? Don't think that's where the Twin shines.

But I digress. Your 65RI is definitely not what is considered blackface. And by the time CBS put MVs on the Twins they were pretty far from the old blackface circuitry.

I'd suggest keeping the RI and using a pedal.
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6647
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby waldo041 » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:32 pm

"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2818
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Postby alcorelectric » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:07 am

Go with the silver face.
especially if its an early model.
if you ever chose to change to original blackface specs, it wont be too hard.
The silverface is more likely point to point wiring which makes conversion or repair much easier
I have a 72 twin and the sound is near indistinguishable between its my 70 model
lastly, as far as investment puposes are concerned the silverface will hold its value alot better than the RI
T
alcorelectric
710 ashbury
710 ashbury
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:51 am

Postby strumminsix » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:54 am

alcorelectric wrote:Go with the silver face.
especially if its an early model.
if you ever chose to change to original blackface specs, it wont be too hard.
The silverface is more likely point to point wiring which makes conversion or repair much easier
I have a 72 twin and the sound is near indistinguishable between its my 70 model
lastly, as far as investment puposes are concerned the silverface will hold its value alot better than the RI
T


AE, the OP wants one with a master volume! A SF w/MV is usually 3 iterations from BF specs so some conversion to BF would be major.

Totally agree about it vintage amps holding value or maybe increasing!
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6647
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby alcorelectric » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:25 am

Strummin,
early silverface MV, IIRC,need mainly a capacitor and/or resistor change along with a bypass of the MV control.After 75 I believe they changed the transformer ratings, which make the conversion less cost effective.Also, from what ive read on a different forum, a total conversion may not be the preferred way to go. Ive read that the SF reverb , for instance, is much nicer than the BF counterpart.
Though i have not AB'd them myself.
T
alcorelectric
710 ashbury
710 ashbury
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:51 am

Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:29 am

I agree with Strummin' Keep what you have, go with the pedal for some OD.....

The ONLY Blackface, in my opinion, are the "Old" Blackface(s). I've been around the world with Amps, from old Marshalls up to my set of '64 DR's. Including that crazy phase of Solid State Rack Mount garbage I got in the late '80's.

What stayed true through all of that, was the 64 DR.
I'm still using the stock - two prong power cable with the cardboard insert....
Damn I'm old.....
Phil
I'm on the Bozo Bus
Billy
Billy
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Postby strumminsix » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:57 am

Thanks, Bozo!
Keep in mind this about SF amps:
1 - the drip edge amps are either = to or close to BF
2 - CBS changed the big amps first then the smaller ones
3 - the closer you are (67-70) the less it takes to convert
4 - SF were designed for more clean headroom


Alcor - dude my apologies I got my Fender facts wrong! I was thinking 77 for MV but that's when they went to 135W. D'oh! You are correct if it's a 72 with a MV then it would take less to convert it over to BF.

And I do agree that total conversion isn't always the way to go. But sometimes if you're in for a penny you're in for a pound. Like if you remove th suppression caps and resistors from over the poweramp tubes you've got to do some lead dress work to remove the parasitic oscillation from coming into play. And well, once you've done that it's gonna sound like a blackface and the circuitry is gonna be pretty darn close. But the SF will still have some differences...
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6647
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Postby tigerstrat » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:28 am

I'm on the Bozo Bus wrote: the 64 DR.
I'm still using the stock - two prong power cable with the cardboard insert....
Damn I'm old.....
Phil


IOTBB, if you install a 3-prong power cord (VERY easy) you'd stand far LESS likelihood of zapping your brain/heart/etc. !! That is one feature that is a MUST for updating on any vintage amp that you intend to actually plug in and play. Basic safety.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
User avatar
tigerstrat
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4628
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm
Location: Portland,OR

Postby I'm on the Bozo Bus » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:26 pm

True enough TS... however I have found an advantage to leaving as is....
I have three kids... (two guitarist and a bass player, yup you guessed it... I'm starting a Skinard (SP?!) "Tribute" band... only joking) and the "Current" (ouch terrible pun) configuration is a great incentive to keep them off my stuff.

I appreciate the safty thoughts, and will likely consider it, however my current gig is playing to a sold out crowd which consists of my cat, and on occasion my dear wife. Pretty tame these days.

Seriously, on a safty note.....
TS is 100% correct. Get those un-grounded power cables replaced! It can be dangerous.
I'm on the Bozo Bus
Billy
Billy
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:52 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Postby Henry » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:48 pm

Only thing I can say, go for an early Silverface, the 100 watt models. There are some real sweet ones, but even then, there were vast differences between them, it is imperative to check out anything before buying. By all means, stay away from the 135 watt model. Those are basically hi-fi amps. Sure they have lots and lots of clean headroom, but every one I have heard so far sounded too harsh and shrill, just too sterile for a Fender amp IMO.
Henry
Blues for Allah
Blues for Allah
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:11 pm
Location: Munich, Germany

Postby zoppenheimer » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:16 pm

thanks guys, I've been playing about 4 years, so I'm not very electronically saavy yet. But I think I'm gonna keep the RI, it's in better condition than the other one at the store anyways.
zoppenheimer
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Amherst MA

Postby betteroffdeadnc » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:32 am

If you want a silverface bargain keep an eye on Ebay for Bandmaster Reverb and Showman Reverb amps. Only look for the ones without the master volume and pull-boost switches. Both of these can sound incredibly good and can be "black-faces" extremely easily. They can usually be found for under $500 for the amp heads and are really great amps. Add a speaker box and you're ready to jam.

Avoid master volume and pull-boost silverface fenders.
-s
Better Off Dead
www.betteroffdeadnc.com
www.myspace.com/betteroffdeadnc

"...Trouble ahead, a lady in red. Take my advice you’d be Better Off Dead!..."
betteroffdeadnc
Blues for Allah
Blues for Allah
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby High Peaks » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:48 am

You might like the reissiue, but it might just be from lack of playing thru a vintage.
I had a 65 reissue, and my biggest complaint is the tinny sound it gets. The cicuit board, and lack of point to point makes it harder and more expensive to modify.

Right now i'm playing thru a 71 SF that was modified by Joe Martin, who does great work. The difference(even before the mod) was huge. The 71 SF sounded so much warmer. You shouldn't care how it looks. You should care how it sounds.
User avatar
High Peaks
Senior Member
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:38 am
Location: Upstate New York

Postby strumminsix » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:15 am

betteroffdeadnc wrote:If you want a silverface bargain keep an eye on Ebay for Bandmaster Reverb and Showman Reverb amps...... They can usually be found for under $500 for the amp heads and are really great amps.


Good suggestions but the DSR & BMR are very VERY different amps. And a good condition DSR 68-72 would be anywhere from 1100-700 on average.

The DSR is like a Twin in a head. The BMR has a much different voice and much, much less headroom and character. It's more of a rock amp than a delicious clean and beautiful foundation found in the DSR.
User avatar
strumminsix
Senior Member
 
Posts: 6647
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:13 am
Location: Chicago

Next

Return to Grateful Dead Equipment Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest