Scales for Grateful Dead repository

Scales for Grateful Dead repository

Postby jhc » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:45 pm

Ebick wrote:

We need more of this.

It's great to have different scales posted, and Kenny goes deep on that subject. But I think it would be great if players would post how they apply different scales to each song.

I'd even like to add a line to each page in the archve to say.....

For solos, try..........

Anyone want to tackle that task?


Why dont we use this to compile the scales we all use for various solos, and Ed can add the information to the song files as needed.

I'm not much of a lead guitar player, but I'll kick it off with a couple of ideas

Playin' - 70's version D Dorian (D minor)
later versions D mixolydian

Scarlet - dont use a single scale, play the chord changes

Fire - B mixolydian

Dark Star - A mixolydian for the main theme

Truckin' = E blues

Not Fade Away - either E blues or E major pentatonic +/- bluesy grace notes

Iko Iko - alternate D major (pentatonic) with A major (pentatonic) with the chord changes
jhc
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Postby jck_strw » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:57 pm

Excellent idea and excellent information.

Like Oliver, "More please!"
http://db.etree.org/jck_strw - Tapelist
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Postby jhc » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:07 pm

Kenny, on Deal, are you using the same scale for solo #1, which is based on the verse chord and solo #2 which is based on the chorus?

Thanks man - you always have some great info.
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Postby Billbbill » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:07 pm

With the verse solo I find that working from the "other end" can open up some cool ideas. That is add in some licks based on flat (and/or finger) picking some chords at different transitions and move around on the neck. Just picking out the chords and bridging a line for the full verse can be instructive. The one draw back I find is there's less room for error. Not exactly the pentatonic "no wrong note" approach.


"My wife's cooking is bad, - it's so bad the flies pitched in to fix the screen door"

Couldn't resist Kenny!
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Postby waldo041 » Tue May 24, 2005 11:15 am

thank you kenny, your wisdom is much appreciated. i am new to the forum, but have been using rukind tabs for many years. i have moved on from the pentatonic scales to the modes and i tell you what. the 5 pattern lessons really helped to connect the dots. also some of the other lessons helped to ensure that i was on the right track. i would hope that you post more of the modes used in the GD tunes as these really do help decipher the tunes. thanks again and hopefully you'll keep them coming. peace, waldo :cool:
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Postby waldo041 » Wed May 25, 2005 12:24 pm

hey hey hey,

thanks again for a wonderful breakdown of a grate GD tune.

Kenny i understand that the natural 7th is just the 7th taken from the A ionian. so am i safe to assume that the flat 3rd and flat 6th are also taken from the A ionian? also are they added to the notes in the A Mixolydian or am i to omit the mixolydian 3rd and 6th and insert the flat 3rd and flat 6th? as well as the natural 7th? thanks again for your generosity. peace, waldo :cool:
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Postby waldo041 » Thu May 26, 2005 6:21 am

Kenny wrote:I am implying it is this scale (whichever scale mentioned) and these are the note additions.

It is not to be read as these are all the notes and
make up a synthetic scale using all the notes.


It is simply saying this is the scale and these are
the additions that are included at points.



Right on! after my post i realized that this was another option based on the solo for next time you see me

Kenny wrote:The solo is A Mixolydian A B C# D E F# G
with a flat 3rd C, a flat 6th F and a natural 7th G#

Natural 7th simply means the 7th of A Ionian.


I realized here that C is the flat of the 3rd C# and the same thing for the 6th.F being the flat of F#. also, thanks for clearing up that "at points" these are used.

you are a 110% right that those darn scale books, and the like, are out to confuse. they have confused me for so many years. i had learned all seven modes from there root to root, two octave scales, but it took me til your post on the 5 patterns to finally connect them all. look at me now, i am adding 3rd's and 6th's and natural 7's for that matter.not only that but i now know that i can do this for all the modes. you are one true jedi master.
thanks again, peace, waldo :smile:
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Postby waldo041 » Tue May 31, 2005 11:43 am

Kenny, once again thanks for the knowledge. i was practicin' my mixolydian mode pattern in the 10th position. i believe D Mixolydian, and when i started counting 5(d), 6(e), 7(f#), 1(g) etc. i soon figured out again part of the 5 patterns lesson. i figured out that, if i play a mixolydian pattern that when i get to 1 it is in fact the start of the Ionian mode in this case g ionian. this big feat helped me to realize that it is not as hard as i thought. i can now quickly figure out how to change the mode.i thought i'd pass this on to you and let you know that someone is reading and learning from your lessons. thank you, thank you, thank you. now back to practicin those 5 patterns. peace, waldo
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Postby waldo041 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:29 pm

"i brought my pencil, give me something to write on!"

thanks again kenny, i have been quizzing myself and have developed a few charts ( answerkeys) that help me to find the different patterns for each mode without a guitar in my hands.

ionian
1-whole step
2-whole step
3-half step
4-whole step
5-whole step
6-whole step
7-halfstep

dorian
2-whole step
3-half step
4-whole step
5-whole step
6-whole step
7-halfstep
1-whole step

phrygian
3-half step
4-whole step
5-whole step
6-whole step
7-halfstep
1-whole step
2-whole step

lydian
4-whole step
5-whole step
6-whole step
7-halfstep
1-whole step
2-whole step
3-half step

mixolydian
5-whole step
6-whole step
7-halfstep
1-whole step
2-whole step
3-half step
4-whole step

aeolian
6-whole step
7-halfstep
1-whole step
2-whole step
3-half step
4-whole step
5-whole step

locrian
7-halfstep
1-whole step
2-whole step
3-half step
4-whole step
5-whole step
6-whole step

like i said this only helps to find the patterns on paper for now. i know that you said to put aside the whole step, half step thing, but i thought you might like to see what i accomplished.

i also made myself an answer key for all the modes and there notes. it is something that i can turn to as quick reference if and when i get stuck.

http://www.geocities.com/waldo041/modechart.htm

so for now i will be quizing myself a lot and keep on working on the patterns. believe me i have more questions about the guitar but want to fully grasp what is on my plate now before i go for up seconds. thanks again. peace, waldo :cool:
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Postby waldo041 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:44 pm

OK! I'm game!

Kenny wrote:1. The Ionian scale can be turned into the Lydian
scale by the sharpening of what note?

1-sharpen the 4th of ionian


Kenny wrote:2. What 2 scale degrees are missing from an Ionian
scale to a pentatonic major scale?

2- the 4th degree and the 6th degree are dropped from the ionian

Kenny wrote:3. The Aeolian scale can be turned into the Dorian
scale by the sharpening of what note?

3- A aeolian A B C D E F G
A dorian A B C D E F#/Gb G
so to get a dorian mode from an aeolian mode you sharpen the 6th of aeolian

Kenny wrote:4. D Ionian has the same notes as the <blank>
Lydian scale.

4- G lydian

Kenny wrote:5. The Phyrgian and the Dorian scale differ by
what notes?

5- e phyrgian E F G A B C D
e dorian E F# G# A B C# D#
dorian has a sharp 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 7th from the phrygian

Kenny wrote:6. What is the 5th scale degree of A Ionian?

6-E mixolydian

Kenny wrote:7. Match the below scales on the right with the
scale on the left that contains the same notes

F Ionian---------------------------------E Ionian

E Lydian---------------------------------C Dorian

B Mixolydian-----------------------------A# Lydian

G Aeolian--------------------------------F# Mixolydia

7-E ionian & B mixolydian
C dorian & G aeolian
A# lydian & F ionian
F# mixolydian & E lydian

Kenny wrote:extra credit: rent the 1986 movie "Crossroads" and
the movie "Petulia" and practice the patterns with
alternate picking while watching........

plan on working on this in the future.

thanks for the quiz it was fun and educating. i will make sure to quiz myself in the same manner. i am anxious to see if i am on the right track and hope to better memorize these, so that i may one day roll these out off the top of my head. keep'em coming! peace be with you my friend, waldo 8)
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Postby waldo041 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:41 pm

ok i understand my mistakes and appreciate the knowledge.

on question 2. i had known it was the 7th degree, but for some reason wrote the 6th. careless error. i need to slow down a bit sometimes.

as for question 5. i did the same thing. if you look at my chart that i made, it has the correct notes for the e dorian scale. i obviously was in a rush and after the 2nd degree (F#) i began writing down the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th of f dorian. again going to fast. little mistakes that i need to slow down and double check. thanks so much for the quiz. i really am starting to learn the modes a lot better and need to slow down so i don't get lost. thanks again for your teachings. keep'em coming. peace waldo :oops:

"spicoli: was that the bell?"
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Postby waldo041 » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:41 am

"We'll Leave A Light On"

It took a couple of readings, but the explanations for my two answers i believe may have finally suck in.

from what i have read i summarize that the differences between the aeolian and the other 2 minor modes (phrygian,dorian). the difference is the 2nd and the 6th. i know understand that if i play an aeolian pattern , if i want to change to another minor mode, all i need to do is either flatten the 2nd of the aeolian to get phyrgian or sharpen the 6th of aeolian to get a dorian mode.

as you stated, the same can be used for the major modes.

if i take the ionian pattern i can sharpen the 4th to make a lydian pattern and flatten the 7th to change to a mixolydian pattern. pretty easy now

i was working on the patterns on the guitar and the changing of them and it makes a whole bunch more sense now.

i do have a couple of Q's.

1) if all that is changed in the aeolian pattern is the 2 minor tones the 2nd, and 6th

and the 4th and the 7th from the ionian are the tones that change.

if i look at the tones from the ionian mode;

1 major
2 minor
3 minor
4 major
5 major
6 minor
7 diminished

am i to think that the 7th is a major tone? or am i missing something?

2)also, the locrian mode is a diminished mode (and i will quiz myself to find the answer), but is it a combination of both the minor and major tones that change?
which scale does it adapt from? aeolian or ionian?

thanks again kenny. hope to hear from you soon. peace, waldo :P
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