Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby tatittle » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:01 pm

Hah! Yeah thats why I revised and said a "special" one. Most of em have bellies now which definitely inhibits resonance etc. My Martin got a belly after leaving med. strings on it for many months without playing etc. I will try (and likely fail) to loosen the strings on acoustics I wont play for awhile now. New acoustics sometimes have built in devices to offset the pressure on the top. The room is probably just as big part of the equation as the guitar re: my subjective experience. One of my favorites was a 1968 D18 (Mahogany)...nothing can make me smile over and over again like a good acoustic in a good room though (at least not guitarwise). I also have a reverence for tradition or more specifically old organic stuff, so my perceptions can be clouded by that Im sure.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby James-T » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:26 pm

http://jimfleetingguitars.com/uncategor ... t-on-tone/

Cool blog on neck woods. A different take than what I've read before.

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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Jon S. » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:08 am

That's an interesting article. I'm left pondering this statement of his: "More sustain = less attack." I'm no physicist but it doesn't feel right to me. For example, I own a Tele (maple neck/ash body) with excellent attack and sustain. If I traded part of one would I necessarily get more of the other? I'm not sure. To me, the biggest difference between my own maple and mahogany neck guitars that I've been able to notice is that, on average/all other things being equal, the maple neck guitars sustain the fundamental relatively better than the mahogany neck ones in which the fundamental seems to drop out earlier, leading to a warmer, higher frequency-dominant sustain. This has proven true across enough of my guitars to lead me to believe there really might be something to it (though also most of my mahogany neck guitars have rosewood boards, not maple or ebony).
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby James-T » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:17 am

Well we'll. I've got a new guitar on the way. Custom build used but new to me. 10.5lbs. Thick part ebony part maple cap over a thick and dense mahogany body and a maple neck with mahogany thin sandwich pieces. Mahogany binding and a Ebony fretboard. 25.5 scale and deeply set neck. It's got a Travis vibe to it.

I'm curious to how that neck will translate into tone once the setup is finished. Acoustically it seems to have a piano type attack. I'm assuming it will sustain well.

My best sustaining guitar is my 67 SG junior. Super light guitar. All mahogany and much thinner than a regular SG with a very very narrow neck. It's too bad it's a one trick pony but does that Live Dead tone in spades.

And I just built a Strat with a maple neck and chambered alder body. Weighs less than 4lbs. I put two SDS-1's in it. And a Lil 59 at the bridge. It takes my blues deluxe and puts it into OD at a volume setting of 2. It also sustains until the cows come home. Beefy sound (excuse the metaphor) for a guitar that feels like a toy before you plug it in.

And I was listening to some E72 in the car last night. I think that alligator on a good night had the best tone I've heard to my ears out of any Strat recording I've got. The high notes just ring out do nicely.

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James
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Jon S. » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:59 am

Sounds interesting. Who built it, James?
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby James-T » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:40 pm

It was built locally by Chris Basone. Here in Vancouver. Scored it on CL for 900 with a case that's never left the guys house.

I called up Chris to ask him what it would cost because it's on his website. 2800-3200 depending on options like the Ebony bevel cap, and a one year wait. Its a carved top. Very sweet and one of a kind. He gets his Maple locally from the same supplier that Gibson and PRS uses but gets the run of the llitter because hes a boutique builder and local. Coastal BC is known for its Big Leaf Maple. Ive got one outside my window LOL.

It was just a great deal. It's never been played. I have no idea why the guy sold it so so cheap. He could have got 2x that simply by selling it on consignment at a local guitar shop. It will be my first custom guitar.

It's got Cabrera hand wound pickups from Brazil. Never heard of them but I'm going to give them a chance and then swap out for Suoer II's if they don't cut it but I'm told they are pretty high end pups and I'm having my luthier set them
Up to spilt. They sounded like PAF s. vintage through a DRVR. You never know until you try and it may be a cool match. I know it's not going to mimic one of Jerry's guitars but I'm thinking it's going to be pretty unique. Bright for sure. It had a great attack acoustically.

Peace,

James.

I'll post some pics soon.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Phishfan » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:04 pm

Going along with what Waldo had to say about the junction of neck and body on a strat, I may be upgrading my stable of strats with the following mod- thanks Andrew Olson of AO Guitars!

https://www.facebook.com/aoguitars/phot ... nt_count=1
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby milobender » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:03 pm

I'm not sure I see the point of putting inserts in the neck, unless the screw holes are stripped... you are just trading one set of threads for another... and two mating surfaces instead of one. The issue is just to have a solid connection, whether it be by wood screws or machine, as long as they have a good bite, it makes no difference. The real issue in my mind is a good flat, 100% mated surface. That excludes shimming. If you have shims, you lose your mating surface. That fix is a bit more complicated.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:22 am

milobender wrote: The real issue in my mind is a good flat, 100% mated surface. That excludes shimming. If you have shims, you lose your mating surface.


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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Jon S. » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Phishfan wrote:Going along with what Waldo had to say about the junction of neck and body on a strat, I may be upgrading my stable of strats with the following mod- thanks Andrew Olson of AO Guitars!

https://www.facebook.com/aoguitars/phot ... nt_count=1

I installed something very similar, over a decade ago, on my '52 RI Tele, the Vintique neck kit by Jay Monterose who developed the system for Danny Gatton. It makes it very simple to remove and reinstall the neck hundreds of times, e.g., to disconnect the neck and put it with the body in a gym bag for a plane trip, and was advertised also as significantly increasing sustain, though I personally didn't notice any difference before or after.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Phishfan » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:02 pm

That's interesting. I have a couple of strats with heel truss rod adjustment, so I was thinking about doing the mod.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby milobender » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:26 pm

The inserts would definitely be handy for removing the neck often...

I have a couple of strats with heel truss rod adjustment, so I was thinking about doing the mod.


Do you remove your neck to adjust your truss rod?
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Phishfan » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:35 am

Yep. The access is at the heel, not the headstock.
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby milobender » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:55 am

Yes, I understand that... it just seems like a giant pain in the ass to take your strings and neck off to adjust the rod... reinstall, restring and check to see if you guess right... why not have an access hole in your pickguard so you can do it with the strings in place?
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Re: Aligator was it the neck or the body that mattered most?

Postby Phishfan » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:02 am

Yea, it is a giant PITA, but I love the Allparts necks (except for the heel adjustment) and try to pick them up used/cheap on ebay whenever I can. I think they are made in the same factory as Fender Japan.
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