Billbill, how would you play Harder They Come?

Postby BlobWeird » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:08 pm

Yeah in the last few months Ive really started to learn instead of guess. And ive learned alot! But any tips you have in this area would be great. Any tips by anyone for that matter! But thanks though for helpin.
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:05 am

Now here's one for y'all...

"As sure as the sun does shine..."

Are we playing it Em to Am or E to Am.

I've always played it Em to Am but another musician whom I highly respect says the original is E to Am and wasn't sure how Jerry did it.
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Postby tigerstrat » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:22 am

strumminsix wrote:Now here's one for y'all...

"As sure as the sun does shine..."

Are we playing it Em to Am or E to Am.

I've always played it Em to Am but another musician whom I highly respect says the original is E to Am and wasn't sure how Jerry did it.


I think your friend is getting it confused with another Cliff song: "Sitting In Limbo"
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby strumminsix » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:44 pm

tigerstrat wrote:
strumminsix wrote:Now here's one for y'all...

"As sure as the sun does shine..."

Are we playing it Em to Am or E to Am.

I've always played it Em to Am but another musician whom I highly respect says the original is E to Am and wasn't sure how Jerry did it.


I think your friend is getting it confused with another Cliff song: "Sitting In Limbo"


Quite possibly. I don't have any Jimmy Cliff CDs so I couldn't tell ya! He's a fabulous musician so I doubted he'd make a mistake in a song he loves. But even the greats falter...
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Postby BlobWeird » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:15 pm

Yeah im no expert but im certain its Em there. If you listen it clearly has that minor tone to it. I havent listened to Jimmy Cliff's version in a long time though so maybe he does do E to Am but Id think not.
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:56 am

I have only rarely heard Cliff's version and I suppose it's remotely possible that Jerry changed it to Em, but I'm fairly certain the JGB version is Em (Ebm in later ones)
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:22 am

I have only rarely heard Cliff's version and I suppose it's remotely possible that Jerry changed it to Em, but I'm fairly certain the JGB version is Em (Ebm in later ones)
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby BlobWeird » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:42 pm

TS since he changed it to Ebm does that mean the whole song is a half step lower?
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 pm

BlobWeird wrote:TS since he changed it to Ebm does that mean the whole song is a half step lower?


Yeah, not sure what year (might hazard a guess of '83 or '84) but he dropped the song from C to B. I myself prefer the B version, because it's easier on the voice, especially in the course of an evening where I have lead vocal duties on every song (instead of every other song, as when our rhythm guitarist is with us on a gig... in which case we play 99% GD instead of JGB anyway).
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby BlobWeird » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:37 pm

Wish I could hear more of your band TS. Maybe you can make a disc sometime or somethin. I loved the Loser jam you have on the site.
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:46 pm

ty Blob! We are planning to get some different mp3 clips up on the site very soon, including from our most recent JGB-themed show... finally have a gig or two to list on the schedule as well :twisted:
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby BlobWeird » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:50 pm

Man I wish I lived in an area with some Dead cover bands :( The only ones around here that I know of are JamBone (they try but eh Im not very pleased. They played ripple and he didnt even know any of the words lol. He sang the first verse over and over again.) and Midnight Dip which isnt really a Dead cover band persay but they occasionally do a Dead show and I think theyre great. They are like a big band sorta deal with horns and such but they do a nice job. So of course the only real option I have is DSO which by no means am I complaining but they are rarely around. But yeah Im definitely lookin forward to hearin some JGB from you guys! btw Anyone know of any other sites for dead based info? Like I know there is here, Jdarks, dozin, and Gearheads on Y! but is there any other forums? Just lookin for all I can get.
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Postby tigerstrat » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:24 pm

BlobWeird wrote:btw Anyone know of any other sites for dead based info? Like I know there is here, Jdarks, dozin, and Gearheads on Y! but is there any other forums? Just lookin for all I can get.


Not so much a focus on "Grateful Dead musicianship" per se, but the massive forum in www.dead.net ("DeadNet") is a real cool place to explore and meet others "of our ilk". Can be a good place to hook up for music trades & gifting, show & fest gatherings, etc...
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Postby shakedown_04092 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:34 pm

BlobWeird wrote:Man I wish I lived in an area with some Dead cover bands :( The only ones around here that I know of are JamBone (they try but eh Im not very pleased. They played ripple and he didnt even know any of the words lol. He sang the first verse over and over again.) and Midnight Dip which isnt really a Dead cover band persay but they occasionally do a Dead show and I think theyre great. They are like a big band sorta deal with horns and such but they do a nice job. So of course the only real option I have is DSO which by no means am I complaining but they are rarely around. But yeah Im definitely lookin forward to hearin some JGB from you guys! btw Anyone know of any other sites for dead based info? Like I know there is here, Jdarks, dozin, and Gearheads on Y! but is there any other forums? Just lookin for all I can get.


Move to Maine! There's 1 Dead cover band, and then there's my band, which plays a lot of Dead but we branch out a lil' further too.
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Re: Billbill, how would you play Harder They Come?

Postby healthy_scratch » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:43 am

Here is one I have not played in a while but it got me thinking - what is Garcia actually doing and doing so very well (especially on the 1978 JGB versions) when he does his chord solo that leads to a peaking manic chord crescendo before coming back to the closing verse-chorus to end the tune.

I actually have not tried it with a recording in a while, hell I do not think I have played Harder They COme in over 5 years but I assume it is just a question of using different chord voicings that are essentially serving as a very melodic voice leading à la Eyes of the World - the sublime introduction to the GD Raceway Park Englishtown 1977 version in particular here, granted most 70s versions include yummy Jerry chord soloing.

The chord soloing thing has always been one of the more fascinating and neglected side of Garcias playing, especially in articles and lessons in leading guitar magazines over the years. When I was starting out playing it was one of the areas I was most drawn to of Garcia's style but never knew how or what exactly he was up to.

Jerry does this ragingly well on the Warner Theatre 03-17-78 Harder They Come I do believe.

Any thoughts and preferred voicings welcome as always.

CHeers,

-HS
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