Auto wah/envelope filters

Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:32 pm

Smolder wrote:I don't do any complicated editing... but use Quicktime 7 on my mac to clip stuff off of the front and back end of recordings. There is a more current quicktime player, but it doesn't have the editing function.

Can I do this also in Windows? (But if not, I do also own a Mac.)
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Smolder » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:37 pm

Jon S. wrote:
Smolder wrote:I don't do any complicated editing... but use Quicktime 7 on my mac to clip stuff off of the front and back end of recordings. There is a more current quicktime player, but it doesn't have the editing function.

Can I do this also in Windows? (But if not, I do also own a Mac.)


Sorry, that I don't know... haven't operated a windows machine in years.
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:44 am

Guys, I could use some help. Finally set up and played around with my new Proton. I just can't seem to dial it in right. The tones I'm getting are not all that different really from what I can pull from my Tron Up M13 model, just darker (more bassy/less trebly) and I think a bit longer decay. I'm NOT blaming the pedal. I just can't seem to dial it in perfectly. Can y'all who posted previously possibly post your settings for your best Jerry tone (or a pic of the unit so set up)? In the interim, I'll start shoveling the foot (literally) of snow we got last night. Thanks.

EDIT: Upon a bit more experimenting, these settings are sounding best to me so far but I still feel like I'm overlooking something, e.g., should I try a compressor before the Proton?

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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby TeeJay » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:58 am

With a stock strat my Proton is very inconsistent and difficult to dial in. With a Jerrycaster obel/buffer the Proton sounds fantastic all the time. The OD/Boost (tubescreamer in my case) before the Proton helped slightly to get what I was after but still inconsistent. I never tried a comp before it. Now I only use the Proton with an obel/buffer guitar and its great. The new Biegel Trutron sounds amazing with my stock strat. I just could not get the protron to sound right consistently without the obel.
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:55 pm

My guitar has an OBEL and on-board UGB.
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby TeeJay » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:36 pm

My gain is at 11 o'clock and peak is 1 o'clock. Decay at 1 o'clock. Try the neck pup? 3leaf says to try it up to 18v as an experiment for headroom? I will upload a pic tonight. My back still hurts from shoveling the foot we got last week.
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby augustwest1 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:54 pm

I'm sure this has already been said somewhere before, but...

I've tried a couple different pedals and could never get anywhere close with a true single coil or even a split SuperII, regardless of the buffer and obel. Tone is way off and there are dead spots all over the neck.

Humbucker middle position is the only way to go, and while I know lots of people here dislike the MU III+, I think it is spot on.

Not sure if the pickup issue has anything to do with your trouble with the proton....
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby TeeJay » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:07 pm

For me the middle humbucker yields the best results with the proton as well.
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby waldo041 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:15 pm

A couple factors to look into going from digital to analog. You probably know this, but if not.

1.) what is your pickup height to the strings? You need the strongest signal you can throw at it, preferably from the pickups and a single coil of either a dual sound or super2 will do the trick if at a workable height.

2.) what is in the chain? Again, the envelope wants the strongest signal. Any buffered pedals in front of it may cause problems. An effect known to cause issues in front of it will be the Boss Oc-2. Think true bypass, effect buffers after can cause issues as well.

~waldo
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:50 pm

Thanks, everyone. You've given me a lot of ideas and new things to try and I really appreciate it. I'll do more experimenting over the upcoming long weekend with your suggestions.

Mike, to answer your questions, I'm not sure off-hand of the PUP height but it's a split Super II high enough to not have created prior issues with any of my preexisting effects but not "too" high because I like the clarity of some space between the PUP and the strings. My guitar, as noted, as an OBEL and UGB (I'm embarrassed to say I can't now recall if it was this guitar with yours or mine has the CAE and yours left with the other Jerrycaster I sold last year but it's one of the two). For today's initial run, I placed the Proton first in my chain in the OBEL. It's followed by my Line 6 M13 which is presently in buffered (not true bypass) mode. And I have an also true bypass Fulltone Fat Boost 1 at the very end, outside of the OBEL, that I toggled on and off when test-driving the Proton (it seemed to have no discernible impact on it).
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby waldo041 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:04 pm

Your reluctance to try my initial advice besets me. All you need to do is at least try raising the pickups to a level that will produce the effect you are after. If after you do not like it, or your effects are rendered ineffective, then change it back and get a boost, or boost with a compressor in front of it to try and compensate for your compromise. Same thing you did with the line6. This is exactly why you have to push the gain of the proton so hard to get the signal strong enough to open up the envelope. I wonder just how low your pickups are?

Not saying your trying to be or want to emulate Jerry in any way. I absolutely understand your philosophy on being different. i only post these pictures once again to show you an example of where the pickup heights should be in relation to the strings on a guitar that has the same pickups as you but had no problem opening up the envelope. The proton is a very close interpretation of the mutron circuit so the results with the same parameters should be very similar.

Image

Image

The OBEL and pickup height are crucial in getting an envelope filter to sound the way Garcia made it sound!

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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby waldo041 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:13 pm

A nice view showing string and pickup height!


Image

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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm a bit lost myself trying to determine where and why you've concluded that I said I wouldn't try adjusting my PUP heights. All I said was they're set now where they work for me otherwise. And also, judging from those excellent pics (thanks again for sharing them - I believe you've posted them here before, at least I recall seeing them previously), my heights now appear at first review to be at least in the ballpark to how Jerry set his but I'll follow up this post with some pics of my own guitar. And also, too, I'm not experiencing difficulties now triggering the 'tron effect from the Proton. I'm more struggling with that the triggered effect isn't yet where I'd hoped it can be. But to repeat, I have not and am not rejecting any advice and I appreciate and am open to trying any/everything. I'll revisit everything (including my current PUP height settings relative to the pics of Jerry's) over the weekend and return to post again here what I learn.

Oh, and I think I already noted this in a different thread but my thinking on my tone has and is continuing to evolve. I am becoming more interested in getting my tones closer to the maestro's these days. That's part of why I thought I'd try the Proton and also why I appreciate and am open to trying any/all recommendations others and you are open to offering here. :smile:
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:46 pm

Quick cell phone shots - what do you think? (After comparing the two carefully - see next post - I'm thinking now that a slight upward height adjustment on the middle PUP could be beneficial.)

Image

Image

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Last edited by Jon S. on Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Auto wah/envelope filters

Postby Jon S. » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:48 pm

Jerry
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Jon (at present)
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