jerry pedals

Re: jerry pedals

Postby mgbills » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:15 pm

Waldo,
I buried this question above… but would the voltage increase from the Mu make it through the OBEL system to affect the preamp?

I could test it, but my dear wife is in the bathtub. Loud tube clipping exercises are best attempted when the only thing you torture is the cat (or dog, monkey, bat, or other pet).
"Hi Ho...the Carrion Crow...FoldeRoldeRiddle"
User avatar
mgbills
Senior Member
 
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: The Northwest Corner

Re: jerry pedals

Postby waldo041 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:50 pm

mgbills wrote:Waldo,
I buried this question above… but would the voltage increase from the Mu make it through the OBEL system to affect the preamp?

I could test it, but my dear wife is in the bathtub. Loud tube clipping exercises are best attempted when the only thing you torture is the cat (or dog, monkey, bat, or other pet).


Yes, but you will have to crank it. More likely, if he used that function, he slammed the front of the Distortion+ with it to really push it. Just to note, an Alembic Stratoblaster is a clean boost preamp as well.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: jerry pedals

Postby Griffyote » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:39 pm

Waldo! great comparisons. Do you happen to know the date of the third clip that shows the pedal steel set up on stage?? I'd love to hear the whole show!
griff
Griffyote
Brent
Brent
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:17 pm
Location: Willits, CA.

Re: jerry pedals

Postby TI4-1009 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:00 am

Pedal steel on stage should narrow it down to one of the Dylan shows. One of the six in July.
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: jerry pedals

Postby mgbills » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:44 am

So in the case of the Earth Drive we have the following from Brad Sarno...

And perhaps Mr. Sarno will chime in here.

"The SMS Earth Drive is a very natural and versatile boost/overdrive pedal. It is designed to keep your guitar's natural character intact while letting you dial in a wide range of overdrive all the way from a clean boost to a very smooth and sustained clipping. The tone control can help you take some of that glass off the top of a bright pickup and/or overly clean amp. It's great for creating a natural amp-like push and feel at any volume. It works great for slide and steel guitar. It also works for bass guitar as it retains more low frequency energy than many overdrive pedals. It's the ideal pedal for helping to warm and fatten up a single coil pickup guitar going into a loud and clean amp."

We have the controls Volume, Drive, and Tone.
My assumptions are:
1) Volume will act as a boost.
2) Drive will act as a Gain, and also add diode/other distortion.
3) Tone will roll off the highs, and "Brown" the tone as it's rolled off.

So is this an Overdrive as stated, and simply colors the tone? Or a Booster with added goodies? Or an Overdrive which transforms into a distortion pedal (thereby redirecting the original tone) as the Drive is increased?

Sorry if this is a distraction to some. I really enjoy this sort of root analysis. It seems as though the whole topic of Distortion has needed this for a while in a broader venue than RuKind.
"Hi Ho...the Carrion Crow...FoldeRoldeRiddle"
User avatar
mgbills
Senior Member
 
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: The Northwest Corner

Re: jerry pedals

Postby waldo041 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:40 am

mgbills wrote:"The SMS Earth Drive is a very natural and versatile boost/overdrive pedal. It is designed to keep your guitar's natural character intact while letting you dial in a wide range of overdrive all the way from a clean boost to a very smooth and sustained clipping. The tone control can help you take some of that glass off the top of a bright pickup and/or overly clean amp. It's great for creating a natural amp-like push and feel at any volume. It works great for slide and steel guitar. It also works for bass guitar as it retains more low frequency energy than many overdrive pedals. It's the ideal pedal for helping to warm and fatten up a single coil pickup guitar going into a loud and clean amp."

We have the controls Volume, Drive, and Tone.
My assumptions are:
1) Volume will act as a boost.
2) Drive will act as a Gain, and also add diode/other distortion.
3) Tone will roll off the highs, and "Brown" the tone as it's rolled off.

So is this an Overdrive as stated, and simply colors the tone? Or a Booster with added goodies? Or an Overdrive which transforms into a distortion pedal (thereby redirecting the original tone) as the Drive is increased?.


As Brad stated, it is was designed to perform both functions. Boost is it's own thing, but it is also a function of overdrive. The "Boost" effect is overdriving the input stage it is hitting. When it begins to overdrive the signal it receives is the point at which it changes to just an "Overdrive" per se'. When it is in Overdrive mode, and "Soft Clipping" the input signal, it is creating that smooth sustained clipping within the pedal. It is also slamming the front end of the input stage it is hitting doing the same thing there in some cases. The term clipping is simply the distorting of the original signal. It comes in two forms, soft and hard which also can be symmetrical or asymmetrical. Hard clipping devices are known as Distortion and Soft Clipping devices are general related to Overdrives. I say that to say this, The Earth Drive is not a hard clipping device, and was definitely not designed to achieve it, so it is NOT rated as a distortion device even though it is technically "distorting" the signal at some point. An MXR Distortion+ is a device that begins in the soft clipping stage but goes all the way to hard clipping and is rated as a Distortion device and not an Overdrive. I hope this all makes sense! :smile:

here is a good read to get you into the basics of distorting the audio signal = clipping.

http://www.geofex.com/effxfaq/distn101.htm

also, take a look at the brief description he provides for PRE and POST distortion EQ. I think we know someone who also experimented with this! :wink:

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2830
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: jerry pedals

Postby mgbills » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:33 pm

Very interesting Waldo! Thanks for the class.

Now lets invent a device to overdrive 6L6 power tubes without making ears bleed.
:smile: :smile: :smile:
"Hi Ho...the Carrion Crow...FoldeRoldeRiddle"
User avatar
mgbills
Senior Member
 
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: The Northwest Corner

Re: jerry pedals

Postby kurt eye » Thu May 15, 2014 3:39 am

I've been trying to round out my pedal board with good Jerry tone OD and Distortion. I have a strat-voodoo 69 pickups-fender HRDX-JBL K120 rig. I tried the Earth Drive - a very nice pedal, but I feel like a get a more familiar Jerry tone out of the cheap boss Turbo OD-2 i picked up. I also came across a custom made stratoblaster type pedal for a nice clean boost. Between the stratoblaster and Turbo OD-2, i feel like i don't have much use for the Earth Drive when it comes to Jerry tone. For distortion, I picked up an MXR distortion iii. Its not a pedal Jerry used, but I like what I heard in some of the demos and I thought it would be a nice versatile pedal. Unfortunately in playing around with it, I can't get any distortion out of it. Its really just an overdrive pedal. I can get a much dirtier sound out of the Turbo OD-2. I think I'll try the boss HM-2.
Shall we go, you and I while we can? Through the transitive night fall of diamonds...
User avatar
kurt eye
tiger
tiger
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:59 pm

Re: jerry pedals

Postby Searing75 » Thu May 15, 2014 5:02 am

Try using the earth drive as a mechanism to create slight breakup. I do this, and actually leave it on at all times outside of my effects loop. It helps make my Mac sound like it is clipping a bit.

Tone all the way up
Level around 11
Drive around 1
This works for my set up. Wonderful!

Chris
All's well that sounds well.
Searing75
710 ashbury
710 ashbury
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:09 am
Location: Western NY

Re: jerry pedals

Postby kurt eye » Mon May 26, 2014 4:22 am

I'm having an issue now my overdrive and distortion pedals and fender hot rod amp. My turbo OD-2 worked fine initially, but now I can't get any distortion sound out of it. I haven't been able to get any distortion out the the MXR distortion iii from the get go. I tried both pedals through a cheap line 6 solid state amp and they both worked fine.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Shall we go, you and I while we can? Through the transitive night fall of diamonds...
User avatar
kurt eye
tiger
tiger
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:59 pm

Re: jerry pedals

Postby boater1941 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:45 pm

kurt eye wrote:I've been trying to round out my pedal board with good Jerry tone OD and Distortion. I have a strat-voodoo 69 pickups-fender HRDX-JBL K120 rig. I tried the Earth Drive - a very nice pedal, but I feel like a get a more familiar Jerry tone out of the cheap boss Turbo OD-2 i picked up. I also came across a custom made stratoblaster type pedal for a nice clean boost. Between the stratoblaster and Turbo OD-2, i feel like i don't have much use for the Earth Drive when it comes to Jerry tone. For distortion, I picked up an MXR distortion iii. Its not a pedal Jerry used, but I like what I heard in some of the demos and I thought it would be a nice versatile pedal. Unfortunately in playing around with it, I can't get any distortion out of it. Its really just an overdrive pedal. I can get a much dirtier sound out of the Turbo OD-2. I think I'll try the boss HM-2.


Not sure I quite get the point of earth drive in a jerry tone section of the forum. If we are all using a jerry voiced preamp and the best buffer TPC-1 with JBL's 120,130s. I'm pretty sure Jerry had the brightest of all setups and is a goal to achieve that headroom especially when the JBL opens up and you get thoughs great sparkles on your high note leads. A non-jerryist guitar player would like to take a warm up the sound and round it up a bit and make it a rough clean. I've played with lots of guitarists and their bass is up and treble is lower and the like the marshall style tone for heavier or more modern rock. I'm sure they would have more use with the earth drive.
Oh yeah if you can find an HM-2 not 3 theyre about 40 bucks. Awesome highly recommended pedal because and I can see why Jer liked it cause it has a low flavor knob and the key is the high flavor knob for distortion. Other 2 knobs r Level and Distortion((keep at .5.
boater1941
Donna
Donna
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: jerry pedals

Postby Jon S. » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:33 am

boater1941 wrote: Not sure I quite get the point of earth drive in a jerry tone section of the forum. If we are all using a jerry voiced preamp and the best buffer TPC-1 with JBL's 120,130s. I'm pretty sure Jerry had the brightest of all setups and is a goal to achieve that headroom especially when the JBL opens up

I think you answered your own question (most of us, most of the time, are not in position, realistically, to play anywhere the volume where JBLs are driven sufficiently to truly open up).
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: jerry pedals

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:54 am

Funny thing about Jerry is that he had what to most of us would be clean headroom, but he turned up SO LOUD that he ran out of headroom. That's where Jerry's magic tone comes alive, when that headroom gets eaten up, when the speakers begin to saturate a little, when the Mac begins to clip a little. All that happened for Jerry at such extremely loud levels, it's virtually impossible for any of us mortals to re-create it just like the original. Even for Mattson in DSO with all the right gear, he simply can't run it like Jerry did. It would not only be too unpleasantly loud for himself, but the band and the soundman and the crowd couldn't tolerate it. I've been with him on stage exploring the various ways to connect the cabinet to the different impedance taps on the Mc2300 and it reinforces just how loud Jerry was.

I'm not pushing the Earth Drive here, but I think that all of us seeking to re-create a great Jerry tone need to explore ways to either scale it all down in size and power and also find ways to get (emulate) that maxed out smoothing, clipping, ice-pick removal and in a way that suits our stage settings, at a comfortable and correct loudness. Simply turning down a full-blown Jerry rig may make things quieter, but the tone becomes tragically sterile and lifeless and the pick attacks are brutally jabby, ice-picky. We NEED some form of clipping to smooth off the attacks and get some harmonic "juice" in there like Jerry had.

Jerry's tone was virtually all treble, but he controlled that voice with his hands and pick and he smoothed it out with clipping. I prefer to find a way to use a smaller Mac and fewer JBL's to achieve something very close. But for those with 2 or more JBL's and lots of Mac power, the Earth Drive is one way to achieve a symmetrical type clipping and smoothing. It's just one way of many. Personally, knowing that so much of Jerry's magic tone came from a JBL being pushed past its limits and compressing, clipping, saturating, that suggests to me that for many of us at reasonable stage volumes, we should probably be honing in on using just one JBL, and likely a K120 not an E120, and trying to use some Mac power in the 75 to 120 watt range. To me, that setup will let us get a bit of JBL distortion, a bit of Mac distortion, and all at an acceptable stage loudness, still loud, but doable.

I still hear far too many examples of guys going for a Jerry tone and it's just too brutally clean, way overpowered, and the JBL's aren't even close to being driven hard enough to do their musical magic, that squirty, juicy, sparkly, kind-of-dirty thing they do when stressed. Once the rig is dialed in, the rest is up to the player's hands, to play mostly in a high-headroom, clean zone but where the pick attacks and hard strums get clipped, riding that range where the clipping threshold is right there controlled by the hands and also with the guitar volume knob set in a place where you can easily push things up closer to the clipping threshold or turn down to where virtually all the clean headroom is intact. I really think that's the zone where Jerry operated. Just remember, Jerry blew speakers quite often. That tells us a lot actually.
... and it's just like any other day that's ever been...
User avatar
SarnoMusicSolutions
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: jerry pedals

Postby RiseandFall » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:37 am

With regard to what Brad just stated above, for me, albeit a total tonal novice, the Earth Drive allows me to get that slight, sweet clipping.
When I initially got the Earth Drive I had some difficulty dialing it in, in a way I liked.
Then recently I heard a version of They Love Each Other, where Jerry was his normal sparkly clean, then in the solo there was that signature, sweet, gratifying Jerryesque crunch.
It then sort of dawned on me that he made no adjustments, activated no pedals...he was just picking harder.

So I got home and tried getting there by picking harder, but for some reason (perhaps typically?) with my rig (SMS>MC50) at the volumes I play at, attack just wasn't getting me there. So I went back to fiddling with the Earth Drive. And I finally managed to find the (tight) window where, only when I bear down hard with the pick, does it get pleasingly square-wavy in a Gacian way.

I will echo this...MUCH of getting any of Jerry's tones accurately, ends up coming down to the gear you are born with, that is attached to your arms.
That is kinda how I see it anyway.
RiseandFall
Blues for Allah
Blues for Allah
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:37 pm

Re: jerry pedals

Postby Jon S. » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:44 pm

FWIW, I've been experimenting with running my FYD and SMS preamps a bit hotter - gain on 6-7. I'm liking it!
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Jerry Tone

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests