UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically use?

Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby TRG » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:56 am

waldo041 wrote:
Sms = 1 to 2 o'clock (full on on rear pot if you have it, i would actually remove it when using a mac)
Mc50/250/2505/100/2100/2105/2300 (modded or else the high end may get to brutal) = 10:30/11 o'clock

Naturally the volumes increase or decrease with the choice of Mcintosh used. Also give or take a notch, but with this general setup, these settings are what i shoot for. Ymmv.

~mike


Hi Waldo - Can you elaborate on what you mean by "modded" here when referring to the mac level? Are you simply saying to mod the volume so that it's not maxed, or something else?

Thanks.
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby mgbills » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:07 am

In earlier discussions, I was led to believe that 3/4 was a good place for balanced volume, leaving abundant headroom in the Vol control. I dime the rear SMS trimpot, and run the Gain at about 11:00. I like it crispy. Then I control the volume range with the Mc volume, or in other words the volume needed for the room. My modded Strat has knurled knobs, so I've got set up so set-screw up is about 4:00 on the guitar volume. At least it gives a quick visual reference point.
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby Jon S. » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:49 am

Bottom line is it's rare for any two person's rigs to be exactly alike from beginning to end AND we may hear things differently (not only subjectively in terms of liking certain frequencies more or less but literally, e.g., at many of our ages, high end hearing loss is common, e.g., I know from testing I've got some 4K-area loss, not enough to be deaf or need a hearing aid but it's real). So for many of us, anyone else's settings, including Jerry's, are a "starting" point. Or if you prefer, the past gets a vote - not a veto. That's just me. Not trying to dis anyone else's preferences. In my case, for example, when I posted in another thread that I'd like to get more mids out of my SMS, can you recommend a "middy" preamp tube, this could just as readily be a comment on my own hearing loss rather than the SMS's performance. Perhaps Duke Ellington said it best: "If it sounds good, it IS good."
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby waldo041 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:05 pm

Banana Boat wrote:Wow....just took me to the place I've been looking for since I got my rig together!!!

:-)

BB


Glad to help!

mgbills wrote:In earlier discussions, I was led to believe that 3/4 was a good place for balanced volume, leaving abundant headroom in the Vol control. I dime the rear SMS trimpot, and run the Gain at about 11:00. I like it crispy. Then I control the volume range with the Mc volume, or in other words the volume needed for the room. My modded Strat has knurled knobs, so I've got set up so set-screw up is about 4:00 on the guitar volume. At least it gives a quick visual reference point.


The output of the SMS Classic is not as robust as an actual Fender Twin Reverb, it has to do with the Power Transformers. So to equate the 2 outputs, the SMS will be somewhere around 1 or 2 o'clock compared to 4 1/2 on a FTR. This is with the rear pot gone or full on for the SMS. Now, with the Mac set to about 11 o'clock you have this type of rig set to be just at breakup or just under it with the guitars volume at 3/4 and higher. Set the guitar to the room, this may entail barely cracking open the guitars volume for bedroom playing or maybe a 1/3 of the pot open for some smaller rooms. The point is to have the rig wide open and setting the guitar for the space and dynamics of your playing, adjusting accordingly through each passage or effect by ear.

This approach is not something most are going to feel comfortable with on the first go around. It takes patience, a good ear and discipline to learn how to use the guitars volume in this manner. It is without a doubt a different approach from the full on guitar volume and just adjusting the amp for the room approach that so many guitars players are accustomed to using, myself included at one time. I am no expert at this, and am not saying anyone will sound EXACTLY like anybody in particular if you try this approach. But I will tell you that Jerry did use this approach. It's merely a technique or approach to playing that's it.

I think Louis Armstrong said it best " There is two kinds of music, the good and bad. I play the good kind."

~waldo
Last edited by waldo041 on Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby waldo041 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:08 pm

TRG wrote:Hi Waldo - Can you elaborate on what you mean by "modded" here when referring to the mac level? Are you simply saying to mod the volume so that it's not maxed, or something else?

Thanks.


Not gonna lie I have some tricks up my sleeve I am not ready to give to Oldsmojo, 1Dallek1, FYD, or HT just yet....

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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby waldo041 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:56 pm

Jon S. wrote:Bottom line is it's rare for any two person's rigs to be exactly alike from beginning to end AND we may hear things differently (not only subjectively in terms of liking certain frequencies more or less but literally, e.g., at many of our ages, high end hearing loss is common, e.g., I know from testing I've got some 4K-area loss, not enough to be deaf or need a hearing aid but it's real). So for many of us, anyone else's settings, including Jerry's, are a "starting" point. Or if you prefer, the past gets a vote - not a veto. That's just me. Not trying to dis anyone else's preferences. In my case, for example, when I posted in another thread that I'd like to get more mids out of my SMS, can you recommend a "middy" preamp tube, this could just as readily be a comment on my own hearing loss rather than the SMS's performance. Perhaps Duke Ellington said it best: "If it sounds good, it IS good."


rare indeed,

https://archive.org/details/philj555_aol_Set1_201308

~waldo
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby TRG » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:00 am

waldo041 wrote:
Not gonna lie I have some tricks up my sleeve I am not ready to give to Oldsmojo, 1Dallek1, FYD, or HT just yet....

~waldo


Got it, thanks.
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby milobender » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:52 pm

waldo wrote:Set the guitar to the room, this may entail barely cracking open the guitars volume for bedroom playing or maybe a 1/3 of the pot open for some smaller rooms. The point is to have the rig wide open and setting the guitar for the space and dynamics of your playing, adjusting accordingly through each passage or effect by ear.

This approach is not something most are going to feel comfortable with on the first go around. It takes patience, a good ear and discipline to learn how to use the guitars volume in this manner. It is without a doubt a different approach from the full on guitar volume and just adjusting the amp for the room approach that so many guitars players are accustomed to using, myself included at one time. I am no expert at this, and am not saying anyone will sound EXACTLY like anybody in particular if you try this approach. But I will tell you that Jerry did use this approach. It's merely a technique or approach to playing that's it.

I think Louis Armstrong said it best " There is two kinds of music, the good and bad. I play the good kind."

~waldo


Thanks Mike! I'm a bit embarrassed to say, I've never, in 40 years of playing, tried it this way... Always thinking I had to have the guitar wide open... and with the recent construction of the Wolf/Tiger inspired ax, not being very happy with the Super Distortions grainy tone at full volume... now I understand "o) at 1/3 to 3/4 on the guitar's main volume and the amp cranked, it's great! A lot of control with subtlety now, a wider range, than trying to get it between 90 and 100 percent, relying totally on pick attack. I am completely stoked with this new technique!

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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby waldo041 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:55 am

"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby milobender » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:33 am

YES! YES!
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby Jon S. » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:54 am

As I speak and read Hebrew, I especially dug that Blues Bros. video clip's Hebrew subtitles. :D
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: UGB/OBEL users -- what guitar volume do you typically us

Postby TeeJay » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:58 pm

How could one achive this open amp backed off volume strategy with a stock strat? My voulme knob is worthless in the strat. Would putting a 25K volume pot in a stock strat do anything or is the on board buffer a must have. I have been playing with this backed off volume strategy on a Jerrycaster wired to waldos tiger diagram and love it. It would be nice to apply it to a strat with out major mods. Would a 25k volume pot and an external buffer box (Sarno black box, Wald TPC) in a stock single coil strat allow to use this volume strategy?
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