tone stack mod's AB763

Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby HeadSpace » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:50 pm

Smolder wrote:I thought that there might have been a problem with the site they used to reside on, which is why I offered to help. I still don't know who owns them, but they are in the public domain at this point. All one has to do is use the way back machine at archive.org (which we are all pretty familiar with for music downloads) to find them. That can't be erased.


Thanks! Just grabbed 'em ....
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby tatittle » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:42 pm

Thanks Smolder, and many thanks to Waldo for the benefits we have enjoyed through his love and fortitude.
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby claytushaywood » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:11 am

waldo041 wrote:Unlike the majority of the information i have posted on my webpage, these layouts were a culmination of intense research and some first hand info from insiders but not definitive. Meaning, they did not come from actual peeks inside the twins or mac. Therefore, i chose to remove them until such a time possibly happened.

Although, after using and listening to those who do use what i have gathered it is pretty hard to argue against the info, especially, from a stock view.


~waldo


So you took them down because you arent sure if they are correct? or because you dont want to share the information?
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby barefootdave » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:03 am

Yeah Waldo, you're so selfish. Why don't you contribute something for a change?

:roll:
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby waldo041 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:08 am

claytushaywood wrote:
So you took them down because you arent sure if they are correct? or because you dont want to share the information?


Unlike the majority of the information i have posted on my webpage, these layouts were a culmination of intense research and some first hand info from insiders but not definitive. Meaning, they did not come from actual peeks inside the twins or mac. Therefore, i chose to remove them until such a time possibly happened.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby tigerstrat » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:13 pm

imho the 418p drops (which is what I have in my '83 Super Champ and at one point temporarily swapped into my Twin) sound identical to the 225p.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:30 am

That's a perceptive observation. The 418p and the 225p are siblings, same maker, same factory (although that may have changed now). They are of the same basic mylar/aluminum-foil construction and are found to have very similar if not identical tone. The 418p series offers higher voltage options.

Both the 225p and the 418p are no longer being made in the USA as they were for 3+ decades and are now under the CDE brand which uses factories around the world for manufacturing. The datasheets are still the same. Word has it that they're still being made to the same exact spec's with the "same" materials. Could be true. I haven't heard reports of any changes to the sound coming from the new builds.


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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby Jon S. » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:43 am

[Post deleted by its author. Upon reflection, parts of this thread took turns that don't reflect my sensibilities on the topics. I'm stepping away from it.]
Last edited by Jon S. on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:49 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:57 pm

Mike "Waldo" Wald is a man of intense investigative tenacity, the likes of which I've never seen before. And for such a cause!! I carry immense gratitude for his wealth of information, discovery and generosity.

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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby mgbills » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:43 pm

I'm 100% in agreement with Brad's statement.
...and also to reiterate that information has been given generously.

Following up on another post of Mr. Wald's...some folks in the world have taken what was freely given, and chosen to sell it for a profit without acknowledging how they derived information on the architecture.

At least one of those individuals sold me a set of JBL's on an Ebay auction, and never shipped them. Which is really no big deal other than I spent a year re-verifying my Ebay & Paypal information, and dealing with the holds and other issues. Basically, the douchebag didn't ship, and I recieved the economic grief for it.

Mr. Wald has listed the offenders. For myself, I'd never support them on principle. And ...I let Waldo know that if he decides to go into the Mod business, he'd get my dollars.

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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby milobender » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Ditto, with Brad's statement as well as the previous from mgbills... Mike has many times given freely of his time and knowledge, on this site, as well as with personal communications. Any disrespect is way out of line. I believe in supporting each other's talents, and I use, and credit, Mike's as often as I can. I also support any business he might move into, I know it will be done with utter integrity. Thanks for all your generosity Mike.

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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby hippieguy1954 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:49 am

milobender wrote:Ditto, with Brad's statement as well as the previous from mgbills... Mike has many times given freely of his time and knowledge, on this site, as well as with personal communications. Any disrespect is way out of line. I believe in supporting each other's talents, and I use, and credit, Mike's as often as I can. I also support any business he might move into, I know it will be done with utter integrity. Thanks for all your generosity Mike.

Brian


+1 I concur!
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby tatittle » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:19 am

Boy that would be great news to hear; that the prolific, meticulous, and thorough....even mythical....guru of Jerrytonewould be taking the time to share his blood, sweat, and tears with modification work.

If anyone wants to go do the research themselves its stilll a mostly free country. Heck the Fender amps circuits were copied right off of the Western Electric patent schematics (or was it RCA). I for one am GRATEFUL Leo Fender copied, tested, and then sold-- the basis for what became the defining sound of an era (including Jerry's tone), not to mention articulate guitar music of any genre....and then Marshalls were built from the Tweed circuit too from what I understand.

As John Cougar Mellancamp said, "I never cared about money, but I always wanted to get paid" (for the work I did). Making a living is not the same as greed.
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby oldsmojo » Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:00 am

Wow just read these posts and it really leaves me wondering about some you. I can understand however where and why you might be chiming in on the bad chorus line. All my inspiration to get more involved in the Jerry thing was because I found Yahoo gearheads and sooo many cool guys w rigs I was just floored by. I had been searching for more since '85. First year I saw The Dead and got a Twin reverb w orange JBLs. Was left always wanting to go Further where my tone just wasnt. I also learned a ton of tips from those/these guys. Nearly every one of them who contributed in discussions had a hand in furthering our knowledge AND our inspiration!

The concept has be plain and simple from the earliest and later senior posters. (even there was not such a goofy hierarchy schmeme going on) To let everyone be a welcome participant, to feel free to comment as long as its not mean or trollish, To feel free to post pics vids ..jokes even..etc etc. Yes I must say thank you to all of those people!!! Waldo??...mmmm dont recall him that well from early days sorry. I do thank him for inspiring and helping so many others with this search..he took the reigns and really made some great sites and helped verify lots of info w the closest sources . I commend him with these efforts!! I do ,incidentally, recall where i have received my tips, tricks, and all other info regarding Fender and Modified Fenders. IE: Mesa Boogie, Dumble , Alembic F2b (Fuchs, Two Rock, Ceriatone, Bludotone etc) Early Marshall, HIWatt, Carr, Allen etc. It came from lots of personal hands on and convos. with people I met in the group including Waldo (maybe 3-4 convos) but many many other people Like Healy and people who just knew E.Engineering, Fenders inside and out. I was so lucky to be around so many that for anyone to think for one second I got info from Waldo that is making my business anything more than it would be without him is absolutely ludicrous ..wow. I dont use the same tone stack even. Nor the same resistors..nor caps...nor preamp tap. I dont cut the 68ks out. I do not, and have never used tantalums in a customers amp! I said I did once to a potential customer from here but he never got amp so I never built any amps with those cap. THATS what he is sore about, the tantalums. A recent customer of mine shared a gut shot with him which I had asked my customer not to do. He promised he wouldnt. He saw what he thought was military Tantalum 25 @ 25 in the pic. Waldo did send me some and I had told him that I had tried them a few years prior and verdict wasnt out on anything exciting really yet. He sent me a bunch of 150D Tants and I didnt notice too much I liked in favor of them. Of course I really did think it was so nice etc etc, I mean we were friends I thought and thats what friends do right?? (should I mention I gave him a neck thru Ibanez mc150 in exchange for rewiring my guitar w buffer and fx loop etc..like easily a 5-600 dollar axe.) Never felt i needed to mention this but hey now I do)

I had been into the other directionw electrolytics at that time and had been for a while! I LOVE the sound of paper electro caps and the early blackface ones ( which coincidentally the infamous Front St amp had in it). I am one of the few techs out there nowadays that will sometimes reccommend leaving in or adding NOS vintage paper caps!! When I asked Simon Babbs to shoot me some pics on the specs of that G. Dead owned amp I was elated that it had some early original caps in it!! Too cool to peer into a chassis that Jerry had supposedly played through at Warfield in 91 .(extra cool that I was at those shows!) It was also a disapointment when there was nothing of any secret reveal jackpot nature. The metal films were cool to discover as they cut down some noise but theres really a brighter more piercing tone with those especially through a JBL! Again, Mesa has been using them since '78..well known. I liked them only after tweaking the amp out for more mids. Thats when I started using them ..only when I felt they worked. In Boogies they work well. Dumbles as well. The G Dead amp also didnt have the 68k input resistors clipped. Dead stock there. Some amps I like to blackface and just leave as such w no metal films at all! Must use original NOS Allen Bradley carbon comps or Riken Ohm German resistors ... Those are amazing. I like to have the values, brands and cap alignment set up the way I prefer from the nearly 100 I have worked on..depending on what I am going for w amp/rig at hand. I dont read something in electronics off a website and visually copy and never have for any selling purpose. So theres lots I did and learned all from MY OWN HARD WORK!!!!w MY OWN EARS!!! I spent rediculous amounts of time tweaking Fenders Dumbles..Boogies..Pedals,.,Guitars..wirings,.. JBLs.. difft woods...you name it. Its been the greatest way to become educated in the long run as I truly know I can say I know what change of a part may bring to the ears ,what change a specific brand might bring etc etc. I also can easily fight back against BS like this coming my way.

So dont even try to further piss guys off on/off here who have contributed plenty to this group with lots of their own hard work. And you re gonna whine about a fucking SCHEMATIC??...Its not even a schematic its a chassis layout diagram. Made by Fender pre cbs and Mesa Boogie upgrades that Waldo did portray as info he had collected..collectively. He didnt exactly claim what was his personal findings as there may be only 2 or 3 in there tops that he can confirm (by alembic Ron Wickersham et al ) were actually in there in say 1992? If the guys at front street were correct and if Babb"s statement is correct than Jerry ran a blackface stock twin for at least one JGB '91 Warfield show...oh yeh w metal filmplate resistors and a few orange drop type upgrades. No .02 .02 tonestack!! I dont even use same tonestack as "the Waldo mod" although I did for a while. Waldo was kind enough to compile that tho and I thought that was great for all of you DIY guys. Its totally valid stuff and can make a dull bf twin come alive. for a 70's twin etc ...can help yes but Its not El Dealio. Close enough yes. If you make one wrong mistake in going for his tone .One thing I had suspected and later clarified to be true via a clue I heard from a customer kinda mistake and you will not have the right attack of notes correct nor grit nor sing or bell ring...the tone may be fine but the feel is off..the compression etc.

First off, I;ve seen so many people make the same mistakes over and over. One of them is getting a rig thats too much for you and will never open up like it can. Make sure pickup height is high. Make sure you have good tubes. I mean I could go on and on but it really will come down to what you currently using and why you dont like that. What year are you most interested in. Why does everyone seem to be into the early 80's only?!. I am into so many old blues players and guitar tones of all genres its just a fun crazy hobby. I've been buying and tweaking my gear since 1986. trying to see what does what kinda thing. Steve Kimock alone has given me so much great information. His tone blew me away in person so many times coinciding w Garcia shows that I became fused into the ultimate California tones. So there have been many from my business associates and customers etc. What he posted is basically exactly what a 1978 mesa Boogie was all about!! Metal films in place of carbon comps..helloooo. and upgrading the ceramic discs....I've personally been doing this stuff since 2004? Now I've totally gotten into other directions in what I am after as opposed to everyone elses status quo deal. Stop being kookie about what you imagine someone else did and jump off that wagon. Its got a broken wheel or two and needs the shit bailed out.


And again MGBILLS Martin, I should call you as thats my surname, Please clarify what jbls you are talking about ..did they break in shipping??..didnt paypal just make good on them early on in the mishap?? I am still going to send you the bolt covers I just got the new stencil done yesterday and have them all ready to get sprayed. I;ll even send you a pair since I honestly didnt know you were pissed off like this!! ok thanks for listening and being open minded. Waldo just put layout back up no? Or maybe i'll simply draw up my own w even better upgrades and post to my Shakedown Facebook page to fish for likes?? Or, the third option...to leave these kind souls in here getting pissed at you ..OR ME blamed for your move?? God forbid.. wow~ Joe
Last edited by oldsmojo on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: tone stack mod's AB763

Postby hippieguy1954 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:01 am

Did you miss this?

waldo041 wrote:Unlike the majority of the information i have posted on my webpage, these layouts were a culmination of intense research and some first hand info from insiders but not definitive. Meaning, they did not come from actual peeks inside the twins or mac. Therefore, i chose to remove them until such a time possibly happened.

Although, after using and listening to those who do use what i have gathered it is pretty hard to argue against the info, especially, from a stock view.


~waldo
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