John Mayer

John Mayer

Postby James-T » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:03 pm

Forgive me if someone has already posted this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRsd8yJ3SLU

Mayer playing a Alembic Further.

Amazing original tone, playing and singing......and such a simple song that is proven over and over again to be a real chameleon!

I know folks have a love hate relationship with Mayer on this forum but he's got my vote.

He was on CBC radio a few weeks back talking about his country influences. Really well spoken and interesting....

It made me think......Wouldn't it have been something to see Clapton play with Garcia?

Peace,

James :smile:
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Re: John Mayer

Postby Jon S. » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:57 am

So enjoyable I just reposted it on TGP. Thanks for sharing!
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: John Mayer

Postby gr8fullfred » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:14 am

What is it about John Mayer that is the least bit interesting? I have never figured it out. I do not even think that he follows the progression with his solo. He is even playing an Alembic, which Jerry did not play, (and nobody else did either). I just don't get it, sorry
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Re: John Mayer

Postby aiq » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:24 am

At the risk of raising the "what is hip" conundrum, a musician can go from hip to pop (particularly if unintentional), but the opposite is a tough sell.

Meyer has large skills no doubt but too many pop tart hits in the beginning and too many TMZ cele stories. Now he's older and wants to be "serious"? hmmmm.

generational?

No connection here.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby joethepainter » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:50 pm

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Re: John Mayer

Postby James-T » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:13 pm

The irony of my post is, that until watching that vid I had never heard John Mayer. In fact I am so out of touch with popular music the only thing I knew about the guy before hearing him on CBC was that the he has a signature model Strat, which I have tried out, in Toronto, in 2008, and as a matter of fact it's a great strat model, one of the best for my hands which I've tried, but as luck will have it I had more commen sense back then and didn't buy it!

BTW what is TMZ?

I saw the Dead back in 82 in Rochester. They closed the show with a great version of Satisfaction. The Stones had just come to Buffalo that previous fall and this guy next to me complained that the fat man on the lead guitar was playing some wired model that looked nothing like what Keith Richards would play. :shock:

Go figure! :hail:

Peace,

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Re: John Mayer

Postby waldo041 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:22 pm

gr8fullfred wrote:What is it about John Mayer that is the least bit interesting? I have never figured it out. I do not even think that he follows the progression with his solo. He is even playing an Alembic, which Jerry did not play, (and nobody else did either). I just don't get it, sorry



I have to state for the record that Jerry's first Irwin, Eagle, was an Alembic. Also, Wolf was an Alembic before Irwin refinished it and removed the Alembic Logo from it. In fact, this is why Alembic lays claim to the actual design of Wolf and is rendered in their Further models. The same is not true for their Tribute models which have an odd dawg ear that looks out of place.

~waldo
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Re: John Mayer

Postby aiq » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:03 am

>>>
BTW what is TMZ?

Cele gossip website/TV show. Meyer has been a staple for years, cougar bait a friend calls him.

If the innerwebz and cele gossip existed at today's level in the day who knows? Would the Dead be fodder for gossipy celeb shows?

Like I told you, generational prolly. The boy can play.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby gr8fullfred » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:27 am

Waldo,
I love you and all that you have done and continue to do for this board. However, it is not really whether eagle was an Alembic or an Irwin. It seems like the facts indicate that Eagle was an Irwin.

1) When Jerry came into the Alembic store (shop), they had to get Doug from the back because "Jerry Garcia wants to buy your guitar".
2)Eagle was named eagle, because it had an eagle on the head stock.

Doug tells the story in this youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8-VAW4nyRs

Clearly Eagle was an Irwin, but let us remember that Irwin Guitars were derivatives or evolutions of Alembics.
Eagle was basically an Alembic with standard Humbuckers, not the Alembic active electronics that Alembic insisted on. Basically the early Irwin's were Alembic's with non-Alembic electronics. Doug worked at Alembic, and learned the craft from Alembic.

Wolf I believe was made by Doug along with 2 other guitars. The peacock inlay is a source of confusion, but it alone does not make Wolf an Alembic (Again, Irwins are Alembic derivatives.)

Alembic allowed employees to make a guitar using the Alembic factory, on the employees own time. This is how Eagle was made. Not sure about Wolf, since Doug was constructing two other guitars simultaneously, whether this was still being done at the Alembic factory or not is not clear to me. Possibly, Wolf was already started when Jerry bought Eagle and ordered another one (Wolf) with "Stratocaster pickups so I can play that shit"

Jerry paid Doug and not Alembic. Jerry left Doug his "Irwin Guitars".

Best I can tell, the Irwin's were Irwin's but the early Irwins were clearly Alembic derivatives.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby Mr.Burns » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:34 am

So the real question is when did Irwin quit Alembic? JK, let's not split hairs, can we just call those early Irwins Alemwins, or maybe Irbics? Sorry, I couldn't resist a bad joke.

Back to the thread at hand: Mayer appears to be living out a rock star fantasy, his behavior of late suggests he's not quite happy about the direction his career is taking. It seems like he is trying to insinuate himself into the realm of jam. Or maybe he just likes some GD songs. Either way he's playing these tunes to fairweather GD fans or people who don't know them at all. So when he doesn't quite grasp the phrasing or his tone comes off as kind of lame, no one in attendance even notices. Reading the YT comments is hilarious, people want to buy a record of John playing FOTD, some actually think he wrote it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything bad about John, in fact, I love when he plays Hendrix, he's amazing at that kind of thing. John Mayer Trio is still the best stuff he's done. He should be tearing it up on a strat, IMHO. That's his bread and butter.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby strumminsix » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:44 am

I have a lot of respect for John Mayer, enjoy some of his work, but am not a fan..

For folks saying his phrasing isn't like Jerry's well the same can be said for: Kimock, Karan, Haynes, Herring, etc and they all get tons of praise.

He's a solid guitarist with a lot of talent who did what 99.9999999999% of musicians did: they went the pop route to follow the musician career dream.

He's trying to correct that. Let's see if he can.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby Jon S. » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:14 am

For some reason, musicians, in particular, often find it difficult to stop ourselves from dumping on Mayer. I see this everywhere. Meanwhile, much of the rest of the world (his ex's excepted) love him. I'm glad Mayer had a pop stage (so did the Beatles). His pop music is among the best of its genre. When I'm not playing in my Dead band, I do solo indie-ish acoustic gigs. I've yet to perform Waiting on the World to Change to less than full audience appreciation for the song. Of course, he doesn't sound just like Jerry when he covers Dead. I like that about him, too. Look, I'm not saying anyone has to like anyone or to try to censor anyone's comments. I just wish we musicians could be less quick to be negative on other musicians, particularly in the case of an accomplished songwriter, vocalist, and guitarist who is earning an honest living from it and enjoys considerable success. Not to mention that he appreciates Jerry's songs and style - if it makes him happy, he can't be that bad. ;)
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: John Mayer

Postby hippieguy1954 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:28 am

Jon S. wrote:For some reason, musicians, in particular, often find it difficult to stop ourselves from dumping on Mayer. I see this everywhere. Meanwhile, much of the rest of the world (his ex's excepted) love him. I'm glad Mayer had a pop stage (so did the Beatles). His pop music is among the best of its genre. When I'm not playing in my Dead band, I do solo indie-ish acoustic gigs. I've yet to perform Waiting on the World to Change to less than full audience appreciation for the song. Of course, he doesn't sound just like Jerry when he covers Dead. I like that about him, too. Look, I'm not saying anyone has to like anyone or to try to censor anyone's comments. I just wish we musicians could be less quick to be negative on other musicians, particularly in the case of an accomplished songwriter, vocalist, and guitarist who is earning an honest living from it and enjoys considerable success. Not to mention that he appreciates Jerry's songs and style - if it makes him happy, he can't be that bad. ;)


+1 Nicely stated, Jon S. I couldn't agree more and recently he is stepping up a lot.
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Re: John Mayer

Postby James-T » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:09 pm

My understanding of RUKind = free thinking dissemination of knowledge. No trade secrets or competition here.

My understanding of RUKind’s Dead’s roots = are you kind?

Dead doing Dylan = the Dead expressing Dylan’s music through their own lens.

John Mayer playing the Dead = Mayer expressing the Dead’s music through his own lens. He’s not exactly in a cover band – he’s creating original music.

John Mayer playing the Dead = more non dead folks appreciated the Dead’s music = dissemination of great music = more chance of someone seeing one of our bands in a bar/ festival or club and grooving on it because.... hey, they recognized a tune or two!

Hey Jon – I like the Beatles connection. They are pop….mostly…..that’s why I never grooved on the Beatles – I’m just not that big of fan of main stream things. I like the Dead because they took their chances on stage where we could be a part. It’s like performance art versus fine art. To each their own. :smile:

With that said I see a huge connection between the Dead’s songwriting and the Beatles song writing. Lesh admits they were really into the Beatles and would wait in anticipation of record releases. The wacky chord progression in Truckin’ reminds me of the wacky chord progression in Revolution. When I learn Beatles’ tunes I appreciate their genus and forget about the images of teens screaming over their mere appearance.

Dedicated – a cover album of various bands interpreting the Dead. That would have been boring if they all played Jerry clone guitars and tried to sound like the Dead.

What I like about Mayer’s FOTD is he took some chances and took ownership of the tune. Am I about to run out and buy some Mayer – probably not – but I’m still eyeing his Strat! :-)

Peace,

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Re: John Mayer

Postby tcsned » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:32 pm

I agree with James, there are an infinite number of ways to appreciate and play Dead music - all of them, if done well are cool and I enjoy listening to the variety. If you look at the different iterations of the Grateful Dead, they took different approaches too. I am blown away with some of the folks on this site's ability to really nail Jerry, Bob, and Phil tone and playing style and am similarly impressed with those that take a different approach. I like Punk is Dead, I like the country-ish bluegrassy stuff, hell, I even heard kind of a hip-hopish Truckin' on the Sirius/XM Dead channel that was kinda cool too.

There's no denying that Mayer is a good player. I've seen him a couple of times and he was really good. Not really my bag but that doesn't make him any less good at what he does. I liked the Dead stuff he's been doing. I think it comes from a genuine appreciation of the music, I highly doubt that there was a contrived effort of some sort to make more money than he was already making. It's a big, wide world out there and can accommodate a lot of different takes on the music we all love.
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