OBEL problem

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:03 pm

Ok.

Tried. The guitar acts the same.
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:28 pm

How the OBEL signal chain works,

strings > pickups > 5way/tonecontrols/preamp > OBEL Switch(Obel side toggled) > OBEL TRS JACK(Send out to effects/Return from Effects) > Volume Control > Output Jack > Amp


How the NON- OBEL signal chain works,
strings > pickups > 5way/tonecontrols/preamp > OBEL Switch(NON OBEL side toggled - Jumpered side of switch) > Volume Control > Output Jack > Amp


Ok, your NON- OBEL side does not work, but your OBEL side of the switch does work. As I tried to give you an idea with the signal chain layout above, your Output jack IS working with the OBEL side of the switch. What appears to not be working is the NON- OBEL side of the OBEL switch. So I believe you need a new switch or possibly just a resolder of the Jumper across those lugs.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:10 pm

UGH!
Installed a new switch. NON-OBEL side still not working. OBEL side works fine.
Frustrating. Don't know what else to check.

Suggestions?
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:53 pm

gr8fl4295 wrote:UGH!
Installed a new switch. NON-OBEL side still not working. OBEL side works fine.
Frustrating. Don't know what else to check.

Suggestions?


Bummer!

I hate to keep asking for more pics, but could you post one of the output jack without the tape and a good visual of the soldering?

without plugging in the output jack of the guitar into the guitar(or from the guitar to the amp or j-box), and using your junction box with it's output jack plugged into the amp and the effects loop plugged in. does your OBEL work?

so, your guitar will have nothing in the output jack and the j-box guitar output jack will be empty as well.

I am thinking possibly the output jack on the guitar is messed up.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:40 am

Here are the output jacks. The solder looks perfectly fine.

Image

Image
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:22 pm

gr8fl4295 wrote:Guitar>AMP. No junction box. No FX.

http://www.hatfielddesign.com/guitar3.MOV



The OBEL switch has 2 sides as I showed in an earlier post.

What appears to be happening is the NON OBEL side is not working, and when the switch is in that side it routes from it to the volume pot and then to the output jack. if you replaced the OBEL switch and feel the Output jack is okay, then the Volume pot is suspect. if it is none of these components then the problem lies in the wiring of them.

This video you made shows that this is the case. On both sides of that switch should produce sound, if the OBEL Send is the Tip of the OBEL jack. The OBEL side will NOT have the Volume pot and it will also not be using the Output jack. It will produce full output sound.

gr8fl4295 wrote:Guitar>AMP. No junction box. No FX.

http://www.hatfielddesign.com/guitar3.MOV


If the volume pot works in the scenario in this video, then it is your OBEL side that has an issue. Your Junction Box has a switch that will eliminate your guitars OBEL and reroute the wiring so that the effects loop is functional from it and not the guitar. So the diagnosis needs to done with just the guitar.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:43 pm

sorry waldo, you've lost me in the last 2 messages.
now you're saying it might be the volume pot?
I've looked at every single solder, no breaks, nothing loose.
Could it be the junction box?

I'm about to just give up. The guitar plays in OBEL mode. I'm just not getting the full functionality of the switch, and will just have to click the effects pedals on and off with my foot.

UGH!
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:08 pm

That kinda is the rub, if i can't get you to try some physical things because your lost, i can't trouble shoot from where i am. The pictures are helpful up to a point. I don't know if it is your guitar or the junction box without trying a couple things out.

In your video with no junction and a connection straight to the amp, plug the guitar in both jacks to the amp exactly like you did in the video you posted. Try both sides of the switch just like you did, only this time when you have spund out of the amp try using your guitars volume pedal.

Next. Plug everything up the way you normally do with the junction box, only this time do not plug any effects into the send and return of the pedals effects loop. Instead put a single patch cable from the send to the return. Then try all the different switching with the jbox and guitar.


~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:22 pm

With guitar plug directly into amp, the OBEL switch does the same problem (sound on/off), volume pot does not effect signal. No junction box.

With everything plugged in normally, and with patch cable from send to return, I have sound on both sides of the OBEL switch with the jbox off. With the jbox on, sound only with OBEL switched on.
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:43 pm

gr8fl4295 wrote:With guitar plug directly into amp, the OBEL switch does the same problem (sound on/off), volume pot does not effect signal. No junction box.


OK, I need clarification. I understand it is doing the same thing with the mono cable to the amp in the guitars OBEL jack. ie sound on/off. in the Normal guitar output jack straight to the amp, nothing(no sound on both sides of the switch. in both jacks the volume pot does nothing. is this correct?

said another way.
OBEL Jack = Switch has sound on one side and No sound on the other side. Volume pot does nothing.
Output Jack to amp = Switch has No sound on both sides of the switch. Volume Pot does nothing.

gr8fl4295 wrote:With everything plugged in normally, and with patch cable from send to return, I have sound on both sides of the OBEL switch with the jbox off. With the jbox on, sound only with OBEL switched on.

I will hold off on my assumption here until I get the clarification on the question above.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:44 pm

waldo041 wrote:OBEL Jack = Switch has sound on one side and No sound on the other side. Volume pot does nothing.
Output Jack to amp = Switch has No sound on both sides of the switch. Volume Pot does nothing.


Correct.
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:23 am

gr8fl4295 wrote:
waldo041 wrote:OBEL Jack = Switch has sound on one side and No sound on the other side. Volume pot does nothing.
Output Jack to amp = Switch has No sound on both sides of the switch. Volume Pot does nothing.


Correct.



Ok, what does the guitars volume pot do when you have everything hooked up normally and the effects on with the junction box?

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby gr8fl4295 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:15 am

Acts like a volume pot. Sound increases and decreases.
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
gr8fl4295
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:14 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: OBEL problem

Postby waldo041 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:04 am

ok, here is what should happen.

with a mono cable plugged in straight to the amp, knowing the send is the tip, the OBEL jack should have sound on the OBEL side of the switch. On the Output side of the switch should be no sound. Volume pot will not work.

with a mono cable plugged in straight to the amp, the Output jack should have sound on the normal side of the switch. The OBEL side of the switch should have no sound. The volume pot will work. This is scenario is how a traditional guitar reacts.

Now knowing that the latter, or normal function, is not working with just a mono cable straight to the amp I am absolutely lost at how adding in the Junction box you get the volume pot to work. in the OBEL wiring the volume comes after the OBEL jack (send & return) before the output jack. in the normal wiring the OBEL jack is simply switched out.

Unfortunately, I can only point out that your guitar is not working as it should, and imho, the non OBEL side of it is not working correctly. after the 5 way, which is not wired correctly, the signal goes first to the buffer, then to the OBEL/NonOBEL switch where it either splits to the send out to the effects, thru them and returns to the guitar and/or to the guitars volume and then to the output jack.

or another way to look at it.

OBEL
5way>buffer>Obel switch (Send & Return)> volume>output jack
nonOBEL
5way>buffer>nonObel switch (jumper)> volume>output jack

IN the above when you plug that mono cable into the OBEL jack it gets it's signal at the send, so everything after it is not in the circuit but everything before it is.

when you plug that mono cable into the nonOBEL or Normal Jack you get nothing, aside from the switch there are only 2 components that are introduced into the circuit, the volume and output jack. Everything before the switch works as we know from the OBEL side.

from your video with only the guitar and amp it appears your problem lies somewhere after the switch, but the fact that the volume component works with the junction box points to some other anomaly I cannot troubleshoot without this all in-hand.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2803
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: OBEL problem

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:07 am

Going back to one of your first posts- absolutely sure you didn't get the two jacks reversed when you put them back in?

Not crystal clear from your cavity photo, but it *looks* like the two white wires from the OBEL switch go to the "upper" jack (the right one in the photo)- the one closest to the strap pin. Usually that jack is the mono (switched) "out to amp" jack. It also *looks* like the white wire from the volume pot goes to the "lower" jack, but it's not really clear from the photo.

Unless your guitar was built with the jacks reversed it sure looks- particularly from the white wire coming from the upper right terminal on the OBEL switch- that that wire is going to the "upper" jack.

Related to that- I'm trying to reconcile the white wires going to the jacks in these two photos:

Image

Image

In the lower one it looks right- the single wire on the left coming from the volume to the upper jack and the pair of whites coming from the OBEL switch to the lower jack. In the upper photo it doesn't look the same- that's where it looks like the jacks might be swapped?

Was up wit dat?
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1427
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

PreviousNext

Return to Guitar Building and Mods

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests