Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Smolder » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:54 am

Smolder wrote:typically 250pf, .1uf, and .047uf (from the ab763 schematic)... I believe in the trem channel of Jerry's twins (according to Waldo's schematic notes) the two larger caps were changed to sprague orange drop 225p .022uf.


Sorry... it was late and I read 'tone stack' cap values (but thanks for being kind).
Last edited by Smolder on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Smolder » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:10 am

@tatittle - I have both a Princeton Reverb and a Princeton PR from 74. I've pulled the fiberboard dato'd baffles in both and put 1/2x1 fir strips replacing the baffles with blackface style. When they made that change in 73/74 it did make a difference. Now mine will accommodate D120's.

I also picked up an empty cab, bought a mojo chassis and built a PR with a larger set of transformers running 6L6's. The 22 watt hammond OT helps with a bit more volume, and the amp has tons more clean headroom, but the PI design of the princeton really holds it back. I wasn't willing to sacrifice the trem or put another preamp tube in it when I built it, but am now considering removing the trem. With 6L6's the bias up near 34mA (instead of the 20-26 mA for 6V6's) it's not great anyway. The trem and bias circuit are connected in the princeton and keeping the bias low improves it's sound. Without the trem I could convert the PI to a deluxe style (similar to the allen amps accomplise jr kit) and have more volume.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Banana Boat » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:42 am

waldo041 wrote:
Banana Boat wrote:Btw... anybody have ab763 filter cap values?


Smolder wrote:typically 250pf, .1uf, and .047uf (from the ab763 schematic)... I believe in the trem channel of Jerry's twins (according to Waldo's schematic notes) the two larger caps were changed to sprague orange drop 225p .022uf.


:lol: :roll: :lol:


TVA1620-E3 x 2 = 100uF 350volts
TVA1906 x 3 = 20uF 500V
TVA1346-E3 x 1 = 100uF 100volts (Bias Capacitor)

Add 75- to all 3 for the mouser part number.

~waldo


Thank You Waldo...you too Smolder and you too RUKIND.

Btw filter caps just shipped...$95 for those...
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby gpilcher2001 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:59 am

What's the super sano tone stack?
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby tatittle » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:24 pm

Yes I have considered modifying the cabinets, or buying new ones. But now I am leaning towards liquidation since I got a BF Princeton. I have heard that the glued baffle provides support for the pressboard frame (yuck :). I already had a long crack put in the frame of my PR after allowing the other guitarist to load it up after a gig, and I think it was just hitting it with a heavy iron mike stand in packing (not a big drop).

My SF Princetons can all accomodate JBL D120's/E120's even Im pretty sure, just a little tight getting it in. Pulling the chassis is one trick, but I havent had to do that. The SF Princeton baffle has been opened up to 12" by previous owner, I have a D123 in there now. I aint crazy about that amp alone but it sounds good when paired with my '57 Tweed Princeton. The tweed's cabinet is really resonant, of course the circuit helps that I guess lol.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby mgbills » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:04 pm

Hey gpilcher2001...I just saw your question. When I first bought my Deluxe, I received a great tip from Brad Sarno (SMS Classic Pre) to change the tone-stack capacitors to make it Jerry-like without adding a mid-pot. If you're interested, I'll dig up the information. It may be posted on the board here. I did a quick search and came up short, but I'm sure I have it in my email archive.

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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby gpilcher2001 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:29 pm

Oh cool! Yes I am familliar with that. Thanks for the answer. Greg...
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Smolder » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:46 pm

mgbills wrote: If you're interested, I'll dig up the information.


please.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby tatittle » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:14 pm

Ditto...I have a Tremolux that also lacks midpot...very interested.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Jon S. » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:03 pm

Note: the following is n/a to people seeking to change the tone of their DRs as opposed to chasing more power and headroom.

The internet is full of people modding their DRs, replacing the speaker, etc. seeking more power and headroom from an amp that was designed for small club breakup. A local tech, Paul Mastradone, told a friend and me once that, for such people, the best mod of all would be to sell your DRs and put the proceeds towards Vibrolux Reverbs. This being said, if you're insistent on going this route, at least it's a road well-travelled. Andy Ruhl posted the following c. 2000:

http://acruhl.freeshell.org/mga/main/deluxemod.html
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby mgbills » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Well...to my embarassment I cannot find the original email from Brad Sarno where he divulged this most-excellent of tone stacks. I don't loose emails. Especially those that feed my gear OCD.

Friday I'll pull the chassis and send the spec's.

Vibrolux's are cool. But they are wickedly expensive in the Sea to PDX area. Where as my Deluxe was obtained for a song, every Vibrolux I see is expensive. Everybody with a '68, knows it's the same as a '67. Every Blackface is $2K-3K. Yikes. I'm a bargain hunter and I will get one. But I'll be patient at those prices.
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Banana Boat » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:45 am

waldo041 wrote:
Banana Boat wrote:Btw... anybody have ab763 filter cap values?


Smolder wrote:typically 250pf, .1uf, and .047uf (from the ab763 schematic)... I believe in the trem channel of Jerry's twins (according to Waldo's schematic notes) the two larger caps were changed to sprague orange drop 225p .022uf.


:lol: :roll: :lol:


TVA1620-E3 x 2 = 100uF 350volts
TVA1906 x 3 = 20uF 500V
TVA1346-E3 x 1 = 100uF 100volts (Bias Capacitor)

Add 75- to all 3 for the mouser part number.

~waldo



Regarding the positioning...staring at the positive side are the 100/350s in slots 1 & 2?

Thanks,
Merle
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby waldo041 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:23 am

Use extreme caution when working with the high voltage filter caps. Know how to discharge them properly before working on them. The voltages in that can are lethal and only a knowledgeable tech should be tinkering with them.

That said,

Probably should not look at these as a "slot 1 or slot 2" position. Even though i realize it can be looked at it like that, the important thing is to look at the individual high voltage supplies these caps are a part of and ensuring you have those wired up correctly. Changing the filter cap can from a deluxe to a twin supply, as you know, have some differences. You will have to look at your schematics of both amps to compare the differences and use a continuity meter to find out where each supply goes to. This will tell you how to layout and wire that can up properly. Double and triple check your work as well as test voltages when done or else you will lose some fuses, and probably will learn why they put those things in a separate can.

Extreme caution needs to be taken when messing with filter capacitors.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby Banana Boat » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:48 pm

I'm hip to that man. Always treat my chassis with respect.
I am however still an extreme novice.
I've already performed a successful electrolytic cap switchout
from stock. I must've lunched on the fact that these were twin specific specs. Haven't been able to locate an a1172 filter can diagram. I originally had 5-16/450s.
changed 4 to 16/475 and first to 30/500. This was recommended to me by someone knowledgeable. I can see here that even though 3 of the twin values here are close the 100/350s are way off..(voltage drop not ok?) indicating a bigger picture thing like you describe in order to change.
So far I'm pleased with how the post alembic mods sound so far less the cathode bypass caps which I still have to do.
The procedure and checks you suggested for the can switch is above my head..... for now that is...
As all changes contribute to the end product tone I'll bet the filter can change would be one of the stronger contributors?

Yes?
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Re: Deluxe Reverbs and holding out for the right one

Postby waldo041 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:26 pm

Check out this layout. You can see where the filter supplies (A,B,C, D) are tapped to in the layout. Not as difficult as you may think, but you do need to fully understand what is required to execute it accurately. If it helps, print this layout and color code each individual set of nodes on paper first. Get an understanding of where everything goes. Then populate the board. Next ensure each node lands where it is supposed to in the circuit. Check continuity for each and ensure everything is wired correctly, to include any grounding. Then double and triple check your work. Lastly after you are absolutely positive you have it right, put the can on and fire it up.

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/6a40_layout.jpg

~waldo
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