This is the tone (for me at least)

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby James-T » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:36 pm

http://soundcloud.com/james-tuer/gd0829 ... hina-rider

Here is that China Rider from the Hult Center. Now that's the tone, but more specifically that's the playing, for me. Sweat clean tone, lots of picking dynamics and a hint speaker breakup. Also great mix in the room. You can hear ever note picked perfectly. Great tone meets great playing.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/c ... dings.html

The New Yorker ranked this show as one of the top 13 Dead shows of all time - for whatever that's worth!

Peace,

James
James-T
Phil
Phil
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:57 pm

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby Pete B. » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:57 pm

imhe, If you have the chops at your fingertips, the gear is secondary as far as sounding like Jerry is concerned.
Jeff Mattson and plenty of other guys sounded just like Jerry for years and years before buffers/obels, tribute guits, Macs, etc...
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby waldo041 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:21 pm

Pete B. wrote:imhe, If you have the chops at your fingertips, the gear is secondary as far as sounding like Jerry is concerned.
Jeff Mattson and plenty of other guys sounded just like Jerry for years and years before buffers/obels, tribute guits, Macs, etc...


While these players you speak of certainly do carry certain aspects of his ability in there playing from hours of learning and pounding out his approach. The truth is the majority were off in actually nailing the sound or tone. They would tell you that themselves! It is only the ones who made an actual attempt to put together a rig that touched upon aspects of his rig that the whole package comes together. And that is what you witness these days with guys who have rigs that are very close to his. There was a day not too long ago that there were a bunch of guys who "played like Jerry". Today there are guys who actually sound "just like Jerry". There is a difference.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2839
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby The Stag » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Bobby didn't sing three in a row I have the actual tapes from this show and this video is missing afew Garcia tunes....
Dan Jr
The Stag
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby mijknahs » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:55 pm

This thread was meant to highlight the tone of Jerry's guitar and rig from this specific era, not to say anything about his quality of playing this particular night (although I do like it). Listen to the tone of Jerry's solo on Brokedown Palace (1:00:36). It is a very searing "clean" tone.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby Pete B. » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:13 am

Let me first say... I love that Jerry tone and all the cool Jerry tones thru the years!
but, Again, without the chops at your fingertips, imhe, a full blow Jerry rig doesn't help a guy to sound like Jerry beyond getting them to the intersection of inspiration and treble-verb.
I remember doing the Estimated intro on an Ibanez Les Paul with a Wha-Wha pedal. I learned early on that we could close the loop with the audience regardless of gear.
It's fun to have all the cool Jerry gear, but imho, you don't need any of that stuff to play/gig and sound like Jerry.
It only gets you the last 2% or so that you would need to get close to an actual tone match.
The guys that do have all that stuff still don't get the exact match because they don't have the Healy factor in the chain.
That's why I always say, if you don't sound like Jerry on an unplugged electric or acoustic, a full blown Jerry rig is kinda like putting the cart before the horse.
But go for it if you have the means. It's fun as hell to have all that stuff and mess around with it and jam with folks n'stuff.
I do it all the time. I'm just a terminal Intermediate who has been playing the Jerry style since the late 70's and has only got into owning a bunch of Jerry-clonin' gear in recent years, so that is why I think the way I do.
I don't think it's realistic to tell folks they can get that tone if they just buy certain gear.
To my ear, for example, Mattson sounded more like Jerry in the late 90's Zen Trickster days than he does now with DSO.
He was able to play more fluently then, imho.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby mijknahs » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:35 am

Again, this thread wasn't meant to be about anyone's Jerry tone or the search for Jerry's tone through equipment or technique, etc.

This is simply my favorite Jerry tone. It's fat, rich, and chewey. Like a delicious steak. I dig listening to it. He only got this particular sound for a couple years in my opinion ('83-'84). It has nothing do do with his playing style ("fingers"). Its his equipment or how it was setup (volume, etc.).
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby Pete B. » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:02 am

My belief is, If Jer had handed over the axe in the middle of Peggy-O that night, to, say... an advanced beginner, there would be a noteable difference in tone due to the difference in right and left hand technique.
If he handed it over to Mattson to take a few, I would expect it to be quite similar.

Q: Pardon me Sir, Do you know how to get to Carnage Hall?
A: Yes. Practice, Practice, Practice.
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby jeager » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:00 am

:? I do love that period for jerry tone...at the same time I would be happy to hear anybody really good playing their music with completely different equipment and tones... As long as the spirit is there and the songs live on.

It seems like not much really good 80s stuff gets released on the various CD series... Dave and Dick etc... I wish they would do a run of the best shows from this period.
"One man gathers what another man spills..."
User avatar
jeager
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:29 am

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby lightningbolt » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:58 am

Sorry to add to the tread hijack but....

I used to see the Volunteers every Saturday night at the Right Track Inn in Freeport, NY. This was a good few years before they morphed into the Zen Tricksters. I also took about a dozen guitar lessons from Jeff around the same time.

He sounded like Garcia on an acoustic and he sounded like Garcia when his rig was a Swamp ash natural stock Strat through a Fender Twin. I think his effects back then were a mutron, boss compressor/sustainer....believe it or not, a Wha and a distortion box I can't remember. No Mac, no OBEL and certainly no UGB.

Mattson still sounded like Jerry.

Jerry would sound like Jerry playing a Ukelele. It's in the technique, it's in the fingers and it is also in the brain. You can have Jerry's rig and without the three above ingredients you will not sound like Jer. Just my two cents.
lightningbolt
Aoxomoxoa
Aoxomoxoa
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby Jon S. » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:17 am

The truth is in the middle somewhere.

Jerry sounded like Jerry through anything.

But Jerry's tone evolved over time.
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
User avatar
Jon S.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1402
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby tcsned » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:41 am

While I agree that the tone Jerry got, the gear was just part of the recipe. Though Jim's point was that this specific period had a particularly meaty sound that really appealed to him. The settings and specific gear he was using was the difference if you more or less consider his playing a constant (granted there are always slight variations in touch, attack, and note selection). This doesn't get into to how to replicate that tone just to analyze it's aesthetics. I'd agree with Jim that this is my favorite era as it was the period I was just getting on the bus and was, to me, the pinnacle of the Tiger tone. Just the right amount of grit and articulation.
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby mijknahs » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:02 pm

+1

tcsned wrote:While I agree that the tone Jerry got, the gear was just part of the recipe. Though Jim's point was that this specific period had a particularly meaty sound that really appealed to him. The settings and specific gear he was using was the difference if you more or less consider his playing a constant (granted there are always slight variations in touch, attack, and note selection). This doesn't get into to how to replicate that tone just to analyze it's aesthetics. I'd agree with Jim that this is my favorite era as it was the period I was just getting on the bus and was, to me, the pinnacle of the Tiger tone. Just the right amount of grit and articulation.
User avatar
mijknahs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby TI4-1009 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:54 am

I was thinking about this on my lunchtime run today. We might look at it from a "left brain/right brain" viewpoint. You need both sides of your brain to function normally, but most people are one hemisphere dominant- like left or right handedness. Right brainers might be more gear oriented, left brainers more technique dominant. Whether the "correct" balance is 50/50, 40/60, or 70/30 is where the discussion really is, and I think the best balance might be different for different people.
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: This is the tone (for me at least)

Postby zambiland » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:22 pm

lightningbolt wrote:
He sounded like Garcia on an acoustic and he sounded like Garcia when his rig was a Swamp ash natural stock Strat through a Fender Twin. I think his effects back then were a mutron, boss compressor/sustainer....believe it or not, a Wha and a distortion box I can't remember. No Mac, no OBEL and certainly no UGB.

Mattson still sounded like Jerry.

Jerry would sound like Jerry playing a Ukelele. It's in the technique, it's in the fingers and it is also in the brain. You can have Jerry's rig and without the three above ingredients you will not sound like Jer. Just my two cents.


Of course he sounded like Jerry with a stock strat and a Twin. All of the stuff we chase are just variations of that basic setup.
Of course it's in the technique, fingers and brain. That goes without saying.

If Mattson had practiced nothing but Van Halen and played a Les Paul through a Marshall, he'd sound nothing like Jerry.

The Jerry-ness of it ultimately relates to the fact that music is a language, complete with vernacular and regional accents. By hanging out in Grateful Dead land we learn to talk like that. Some of it comes from gear and some comes from simply speaking the language (which in itself has roots in many other lands. My transition to playing the music comes not only from seeing a good amount of shows back in the 70s and 80s but also from independently sharing backgrounds with Phil. I grew up playing classical music, from Bach to Hindemith and Schoenberg (albeit playing oboe and not trumpet, but analogies could be drawn, especially in the world of Bach) and also studied jazz, electronic music, etc. Those are sounds and languages that are ingrained.). The ability of a musician to successfully inhabit the sound and style of a particular music comes from treating it as a cultural experience rather than a technical or athletic experience. At the end of the day, Jerry was a master storyteller. He told the story through notes and tones. The notes are important because they relay the facts, the tone is important because it relays the emotion and context.
zambiland
Senior Member
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: Boulder CO

PreviousNext

Return to Jerry Tone

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest