jam

jam

Postby easytoslip » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:32 pm

what's going on here, can someone elaborate? sounds like it takes off from the Bm? I'm actually listening to Dead On, local jam, but I'd imagine it's not all too different from Jerry takes, although the second jam here sounds more major than the first that sounded minor
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Re: jam

Postby tigerstrat » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:57 am

maybe you could restate the question? maybe explain what "Dead On, local jam" is referring to? I haven't listened to an FH lately, but I only remember one jam...
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: jam

Postby easytoslip » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:11 pm

local Dead tribute band jamming Foolish Heart, they call themselves Dead On:

http://archive.org/details/deadon2012-1 ... 461.flac16

mostly my question was a "what does jerry usually do" when he solos in Foolish Heart, if he sticks to one basic thing (mixolydian?) and what key? still pretty new to me so keeping it basic would be great.

edit to add: actually am very interested in what Bobby would do usually as well. That language makes more sense to me, as I've been so chord-driven for so many years
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Re: jam

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:38 am

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Re: jam

Postby Pete B. » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:01 am

ets,
A basic starting point for you to jam along with your friends band....
Starting at 4:26 of that link, you could play along by playing a D barre chord and sliding it up two frets to an E barre chord. You can get a little bobbyness out of it by letting the open E-string ring the whole time.
The basic jam is D to E over and over, so you could also try some different chord positions.

As far as single note soloing goes, think E-Mixolyidian. The b7 note of E Mixolyidian is D, so this is a match made in Heaven.

Here is the chord shape for the D and E barre chord. The D would start with the 5th string on the 5th fret, then slide the whole thing up two frets to E.
Let the 6th string ring the whole time.
Image

Here is E Mixo. I like to start on the high-E string at the 12th fret and work downward from there in a Jerry-esque fashon.
Look at the bottom figure of these Mixo positions:
Image
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Re: jam

Postby Lunchbox16 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:46 am

Rusty,

As always, enjoyed your vid. Very informational and helpful. Quick question: You said to avoid the 4th, saying the 4th is "poison." Outside of a sus4 chord, I assume, why is this? Just curious as I'd never heard that opinion before.

Thanks!
"Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir." Time is a great storyteller. -- Irish Proverb
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Re: jam

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:24 pm

Lunchbox16 wrote:Rusty,

As always, enjoyed your vid. Very informational and helpful. Quick question: You said to avoid the 4th, saying the 4th is "poison." Outside of a sus4 chord, I assume, why is this? Just curious as I'd never heard that opinion before.

Thanks!


Glad you liked it!

Avoiding the 4th was drilled into me at school while learning swing/jazz walking basslines. The issue is that the 4th blurs the tonality. It's very easy to accidentally make a I to IV chord-change sound like a V-I chord change since it's such a common resolution, so playing that 4th note makes the I sound a little less like a I. This is especially important on bass but I suspect that soloists tend to avoid that note as well.

* When I say to avoid it I don't mean not to ever play it, but avoid using it as anything other than a passing tone from the 3rd to 5th or vice versa, avoid playing it more strongly than surrounding notes, avoid playing it on "strong" beats 1 or 3, etc. Even for a SUS 4 chord I'll avoid it, I'll typically just avoid the 3rd as well.
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Re: jam

Postby easytoslip » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:23 pm

right on, thank you thank you thank you. SO much help, much appreciated!!
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Re: jam

Postby Lunchbox16 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:45 pm

Rusty,

Thanks again. That's makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the clarification/explanation.

Cheers,
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Re: jam

Postby seamones » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:21 pm

Pete B. wrote:ets,
A basic starting point for you to jam along with your friends band....
Starting at 4:26 of that link, you could play along by playing a D barre chord and sliding it up two frets to an E barre chord. You can get a little bobbyness out of it by letting the open E-string ring the whole time.
The basic jam is D to E over and over, so you could also try some different chord positions.

As far as single note soloing goes, think E-Mixolyidian. The b7 note of E Mixolyidian is D, so this is a match made in Heaven.

Here is the chord shape for the D and E barre chord. The D would start with the 5th string on the 5th fret, then slide the whole thing up two frets to E.
Let the 6th string ring the whole time.
Image

Here is E Mixo. I like to start on the high-E string at the 12th fret and work downward from there in a Jerry-esque fashon.
Look at the bottom figure of these Mixo positions:
Image


Great post, thank you. i am trying to get this all straight in my head too. So is it correct that E Mixo is the same as A Maj scale? And if so, why do we refer to it differently?
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Re: jam

Postby Pete B. » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:19 am

seamones wrote:Great post, thank you. i am trying to get this all straight in my head too. So is it correct that E Mixo is the same as A Maj scale? And if so, why do we refer to it differently?


E is the 5th step of the A Major scale.
So instead of saying "Start on the 5th step of the Major Scale (A, in this case) and use that as your root", "they" ('not sure who) gave it a name based on some Greek or Latin prefix/suffix, "Mixolyidian", E-Mixolyidian in this case.
"Ionian" is the same as the Major Scale (Root to Root, ie. Do Re Me... etc). Think, Eyes of the World.
"Dorian" starts/ends on the second step of the major scale. Most GD songs in a minor key.
"Mixolyidian" starts/ends on the 5th step of the major scale. Foolish Heart, Music Never Stops jam in B, etc.
JG gets alot of milage out of these three scales.
Mississipi Halfstep solo between verses is Dorian, Mississipi Halfstep jam at the end (A>D) is Mixolyidian.
Stuff like that.
You'll get used to it.
I am at best an advanced intermediate at this theory stuff, but for the GD it is really mostly 100 and 200 level Music Theory.
I won't be playing any Steely Dan songs any time soon... based on my music theory knowledge. :? :D :drink: :oops: :roll:
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Re: jam

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:06 am

Solid explanation by Pete B. There are a lot of ways to think about Modes, probably a good half-dozen that are all different but equally correct, so they can seem more confusing than they really are.

Sorry to video-up the thread (hey, I just verbed too!) but I put my two favorites together in a video a couple of years ago that might help clarify:

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Re: jam

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:01 pm

the names of the modes were taken from the various tribes living around the Aegean Sea in Greece and Asia Minor circa 500BC.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: jam

Postby Pete B. » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:16 pm

That's true. (Actually, I dunno, but, 'sounds good t' me!)

My 4th grade teacher at Roosevelt Elementary was named Ms. Dorian (I recall we played Born Free in the school band that year, I was playing Alto sax at the time, first chair).

What's interesting about Jerry's arguably most used modes (from the Latin modus, or "interval"), is... there is only a one note difference between Ionian and Mixolyidian (natural 7 becomes a flat 7). Once you are in Mixolydian, there is only a one note difference between Mixolydian and Dorian (natural 3rd becomes a flat 3rd).
Nice!
So, knowing that, now you can go throw on the Eyes>NFA>OtherOne and play along with JG,
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