Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby gr8fulbluz » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:58 am

mgbills wrote:Ok. Agreeing to hijack my own thread. How many Tolkein freaks are on this board. I've probably read LOTR, Hobbit, & Silmarillian 20 times in 30 years.

And I'm know I'm a Whack-Job...but I thought the rest of you were way cooler than me.

BTW...if you have like Tolkein, and you've not read Little,Big by John Crowley...you're missing out. Takes 2 reads often to find the love. Just saying.

Peace
M



Wow, me to. I started the summer between 8 and 9th grade. The Silmarillion I have only read maybe twice but the others are well worn. I always hesitate to tell people i have read the hobbit 10 plus times. Indeed, I have started the Hobbit again last month.

Do We have a book thread?
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Jon S. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:55 am

"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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- Mods -

Postby Pete B. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:23 am

Marty,
Let's plan to put that optimized Taper tone pot in the Blue Strat, asap. As a player, my observation is that the mill spec pot is too stiff to turn effectively while playing and singing in real time with a band, and simply does not do anything to affect tone throughout most of its available rotation.

The other Strat issue is... string height vs Intonation.
That little spring behind the nut on the G and low E is fully compressed. Raising the action into the Jerry zone means you cannot intonate the guitar properly. My thought is to remove that spring, which will buy you what appears to be at least another 3/16th's of an inch of string length. It appears the string will then be coming off the tremolo bar string hole at a reverse angle, which will hold the Bridge in place like the spring otherwise would.
I'm thinking this will be an easy mod to test fire.
I gotta tell you guys, I've grown to hate guitars that cannot be easily intonated (with room to spare) at my desired string height.

I have an Earvanna nut on my ESP Ltd Les Paul. I may order one for a Strat. Any way ya cut it, Ya gotta be able to play all your CAGED chord forms up and down the neck, at your desired string height, and be in tune across the board.
Word???
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby mgbills » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:53 am

Jon...I've just finished the Bombadil essay really enjoyed it.

In my life, I've always been the guy who can only take a travel agenda lightly. What if an enigma shows up along the way! Too much focus on "What is supposed to happen!" leaves little room for "What is happening (or what might happen).

My ex-wife frequently accused me of being incapable of staying on schedule (hers). My new wife enjoys rabbit-holes of all kinds.
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby waldo041 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:03 am

I ran into the same thing. The fix i found was to use a custom shop hard tail bridge that is no longer made. But i did find some nos on ebay. For jg string height it will need to be moved slightly from the stock trem position so you can intonate properly. They are made to drop in right where the stock was, but require 4 screws. This bridge accomplishes 3 things for a jerry guitar;

1) it is a hardtail, bridge and tailpiece in one
2) allows for proper jerry string height with proper intonation with correct placement
3) it removes all the trem bridge hardware leaving the trem cavity empty for a buffer and battery

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 3109124125

~waldo
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Pete B. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:14 am

Nice research work, Waldo.
[Again] Thanks for the heads up.
I'll give the spring mod a shot and see if it gets it.
I also recall a guy who made a hardtail mod that included a cool looking (to me) lightning bolt that extended towards the bottom of the guitar [so far I can't re-locate his site].
As always...
Funn Stuff!
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Last edited by Pete B. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Jon S. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:22 am

I've always been under the assumption that a blocked trem can sound pretty close to an actual hardtail (& some people I know say you can even close just by using a full set of really stiff springs - that's the approach I'm using now with my '86 PRS Custom and frankly I question its effectiveness relative to a hardtail but thought I'd at least mention it). What I'm suggesting is a real hardtail is preferred but if it's not in the cards for someone with a given Strat, might as well block that trem. If you Google "strat block trem," you'll find detailed discussions how best to do it and the pros and cons from other forums and sources.
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Pete B. » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:30 am

Just sayin'...
If you can't intonate (at the desired string height) and play the intro to Uncle Johns Band (just one example) on a given guitar, up and down the neck in all chord positions, and be in tune across the board, nothing much else matters (hard tail or blocked, brand/model, luthier/cost, etc...).
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby RiverRat » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:33 pm

Jon S. wrote:
Tennessee Jedi wrote:
Jon S. wrote: and I won't even repeat what they call Peter Jackson's movies except to say "heresy" would be a mild alternative. We folks here are mere pikers in comparison! :lol:

I saw the Hobbit and all I could think about was " thats not in the book !"
:D

Now this will be my last comment here on Tolkien. Many of the "extra" scenes in the first Hobbit move were created by Tolkien, just not in the Hobbit, specifically you can find them in the Appendices to The Return of the King and the Christopher Tolkien-edited Unfinished Tales. :D


Harrumph... I never forgave Mr Jackson for omitting Tom Bombadil from FoTR... Lets not go into that abortion that was The Hobbit Pt1.
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby mgbills » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:35 pm

It's become abundantly clear that a Strat with a blocked trem really wants a dimension of more like 3/32" at the 12th. The 7/64" dimension means that the 3rd and 6th strings are pegged hard against the limitations of the springs, and really there is little adjustment left where the string breaks from the saddle through the slider. The ideal may be to move the bridge 5/64th" toward the tail. (Estimation).

So, lower the action to achieve proper intonation and sacrifice string dynamics. I like the idea of changing the bridge, filling the existing holes/doweling etc. But the owner is going to then pay out the nose, or sacrifice appearance...because of finish irregularities. Poly finish is fussy. When I get to building more, I think it'll all be Osmo or French Polish....something readily repairable. Lacquer, while "The Standard" is rapidly disappearing. I read Bob Taylor's book, and it has a big section on historical n-c lacquer issues. Poly repairs poorly. Ug. Diatribe

I was looking at the Ruklick Wolf, and exchanged an email with Matt Moriarty. In brief, Matt seemed to indicate that his perception of Jerry's string action was not nearly as high as the stats from Mr. Brawer. Please don't think I'm defending any of this, just passing along info as I learn.

My personal belief is that geometry & physics are pretty clear in this regard, and at the point the bridge is set...some options are off the table. Anything can be changed, but there will always be trade offs.

Anyway. Keep the faith. We'll get it all worked out.
Peace
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby ringKing72 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:20 pm

I'm very curious to hear your conclusion on the log pot Just thinking and wondering if it would be better to use a 1MOhm log pot instead? A 500K log pot may give you 60-70% (just a ballpark guess), or 0 to350kOhm of tapered sweep, before it takes off toward the high end. This leaves more taper to be desired to utilize the remaining 150Kohm. A 1MOhm pot again should provide 60-70% sweep, but now it's over the full 500K range and then some.

The plots compare the 0 to 500KOhm sweep (top), and 0 to 1MOhm sweep (bottom), both in 50K increments. The latter adds considerable more voltage gain to the higher order harmonics as the resistance approaches 1Mohm which may result in too bright a tone, or it may add a nice twist to the tone. Brightness can always be dialed down at the the amp through the Treble.

Image

rk
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby tigerstrat » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:34 pm

Clearly from this illustration, we have entered Cirith Ungol, and only with the Potentiometer of Galadriel can we hope to escape Shelob's webs of unlight.

Image
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Jon S. » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:35 am

I hereby nominate tigerstrat for Post of the Year! :cool:
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby Pete B. » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:01 am

We're gonna test-fire the other taper pot and see how it works. As of now my tone pot twists like 90% of the way without doing anything, then goes from treble to bass like a light switch. Is this how other guys tone pot(s) work?
We removed the springs on the G and low E and that bought alot of room intonation wise, although we did not bump the action up 7/64ths yet. Next time.
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Re: Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby TI4-1009 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Being a lefty, I thought that's how pots were supposed to work :lol:
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