Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Sacriledge - Mods - a.k.a The RUKind/Tolkein Diatribe

Postby mgbills » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:12 pm

Good Afternoon All,

I admit from the outset that this is dangerous ground. I do believe, however, that many intelligent folks contribute to this board...and test many assumptions about equipment configurations. I would propose that we try to put known changes and/or
:shock: improvements here.

For example...I believe these two points need to be consider when considering a Wolf or Tiger Mod.

"Change pickups to a lower output reducing the capacitance and inductance reactance the Super 2/ Dual sound values have."
~waldo

"A logarithmic 500K POT may do the trick. It will have less slope than a linear POT at the low end of the tuning range."
ringKing72

"Agreed, taper is likely the issue here."
B (Sarno)

I haven't tested these. I will. I love my Tiger-modded Strat. But if I could improve the performance (sweep) of the tone controls...I have no problem with that.

There are other's out there. Amp mods. Wiring changes. All things to consider when undertaking a building project.

Let's see if we can consolidate some of this information.
Peace
M
Last edited by mgbills on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Jon S. » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:29 pm

Had Jerry lived through to today, he might have made some of these or other changes himself. Benjamin Franklin said, "There are two kinds of fools. The first says, 'Old, and therefore good.' The second says, 'New, and therefore better.' " This practical sentiment is potentially transferable to many settings and issues.
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:05 pm

We cannot speculate as to what jerry might have or might not have done. However the whole point of the investigative work done into jerry's guitars and gear was to try and figure out just how, from an equipment standpoint, he got that sound. To that end we have gotten a lot closer then ever before. And that is where it stands, take it or leave it. If one wants to try and get as close to what jerry actually played we now can offer some info on achieving that. Despite what some may believe there are actual folks that want to start at that point in their tone quest. I agree everybody has their own ear and tastes, and that is without a doubt where it all starts. But if you begin to alter, tweak or modify the formula in any way it becomes something else and that in itself is all subject to a matter of opinion. If people begin to say, "here is a mod on a jerry mod i think jerry would most definately had had he still been alive", people are gonna start chinese telephone and some will begin to believe it. If you have gotten to the point in your jerry tone quest where you believe it can be improved, it is your ear telling you that and not jerry's! Nothing wrong with it, but this needs to be put into perspective.

~waldo
Last edited by waldo041 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby ricepr » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:41 pm

I think Jerry would use a Jackson soloist with 1 EMG pickup and a Floyd Rose. The pickup would be in the middle position of course, for Jerry tone
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Jon S. » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:20 pm

It is certainly important to know your trail and destination. Then when you bushwack, you have a frame of reference from whence you came and to which you can return.
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby tcsned » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Jon S. wrote:It is certainly important to know your trail and destination. Then when you bushwack, you have a frame of reference from whence you came and to which you can return.


Excellent point. I think we'd all agree that Jerry had one of the most unique, recognizable, and effing awesome tones in the history of the electric guitar. He obviously wasn't a "grab a Strat and a Twin" and just play. He had a tone he was searching for and the mind and talent around him to bring it to fruition. It is more than a worthwhile effort to pin down all of the different variations he wen through and see what they have to offer. There's new stuff out there too and taking Jerry's gear as a launching point to make something new that you like is also cool. There are many valid paths to guitar tone nirvana. I don't think there's anything sacrilegious tweaking what Jerry, Bob, and Phil did with their gear. The whole approach of the Grateful Dead is somewhat sacrilegious to the norms of music and society so I think that's a free pass to commit heresy to their legacy.
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby ricepr » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:49 pm

To stand on the shoulders of giants to see further is not heresy. Particularly as noted when the giants were heretics
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby lightningbolt » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:42 am

Rick Turner said it best in an old post.....

To think that you can capture Jerry's spirit by duplicating his preamp (for instance...) is a guaranteed losing game... He would have changed it by now...
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Jon S. » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:31 am

If you think some people here have a cow in response to the "sacrilege" of deviating from Jerry's exact rig, you should come with me to the J.R.R. Tolkien forum I post on occasionally. They actually call Tolkien's personal writings the "canon," his son's (Christopher) cleanup and republishing of his father's papers the "apocryphy," and I won't even repeat what they call Peter Jackson's movies except to say "heresy" would be a mild alternative. We folks here are mere pikers in comparison! :lol:
"For me, I think the only danger is being too much in love with guitar playing. The music is the most important thing, and the guitar is only the instrument." Jerry Garcia
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:01 am

Jon S. wrote: and I won't even repeat what they call Peter Jackson's movies except to say "heresy" would be a mild alternative. We folks here are mere pikers in comparison! :lol:

I saw the Hobbit and all I could think about was " thats not in the book !"
:D
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:09 am

In my world it's more about the chops than the gear.
You can sound like Jerry on an unplugged acoustic, if you have the chops.
Now that I'm financially able to buy and try some of the Jerry gear available these days, I must say, I do like to buy it and try it (...uh, there are no $6000 dollar guitars at my house)... but if it's a Tiger build on a Strat, I gotta get that knob closest to the bridge pickup out of the way of my pickin' hand.
I have that knob removed on all three Strats I have... It's not my mod, but I've heard it called the Master-Volume Master-Tone mod.
In other Mod news... A friend just had the Custom 69's installed on his Strat.
I will be doing a side by side with my Tiger modded Strat and other Strats and his Strat later this week I hope... just for the fun of it!
It's a hobby for me... not an obsession.
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:18 am

" its a obsession but its pleasin' "
:smile:
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Pete B. » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:37 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:" its a obsession but its pleasin' "
:smile:


So true...
So true.

I often ask myself...
Why am I still such a Deadhead???
I just picked up that Relix compliation book on sale for $10.98 (I wasn't even looking for a book, i was looking for the Feb issue of Vintage Guitar mag with that MuIII article).
DSO will be here April 18/19 and i'll go both nights.
WTF???... according to our Visa statement, you just spent another 500 bucks?!?!, like... a month ago??? [Wife rolls eyes]
:hail:
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:47 am

Keeping the flame burning - wherever we are !
:cheers:
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Re: Sacriledge - Modifications to Known Jerry/Bob/Phil Mods

Postby mgbills » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 am

I am definitely in the camp of preserving the tonic essentials. I think most of us are here because we love these tones we hear from the boys.

I'm not advocating wholesale changes. I guess what I'd like to see is an analytic analysis of switching to a a log pot in the Wolf or Tiger configuration. I don't have the goodies to run cool test like those in the recent Wolf thread. I love that crispy clean tone, and don't want it altered...

...but I would like to have more defined control in the tone pots, without sacrificing that Jerry tone. Maybe it's a foregone conclusion that any pot change will effect tone, but I haven't experimented enough yet to know that. I do understand that dropping a 125K pot in there would be a dramatic shift.

I guess this is also an appeal to those who have gone before. Can the sweep of the tone pots be improved without a tonal sacrifice.
Peace
M
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