P-Bass with flats through tube amp - time to change?

[Walknbluez]

BassplayerLB, do you ever have a problem with the Eden going into thermal shutdown? I've read about this on some of the Eden WT-800 heads that were manufactured before they improved the cooling system.

I bought mine back in August of 2011 used from Guitar Center and I think it's one of the models before they improved it. I have never had any issue with it going into thermal shutdown. It does get pretty hot, and for awhile it concerned me, but at this point I stopped worrying about it since it hasn't happened yet. I also push it pretty hard usually. I've used it to power 3 cabs for an entire 2 set GD show pushing it almost to it's limit multiple times and had no problem at all! I have read similar things about these heads but I guess I got lucky.

Again, your tone is off the hook in that video! May I pick your brain some more? What model Gretsch is your bass? Where did you get it? I have a local ad on craigslist where someone is selling a full stack, the Eden WT-800 manufactured in '94 in a rack mounted travel hard case, plus an Eden D410XST cab, and an Eden D118XL cab for $2,000. But the 18" would be way overkill for me and so I asked if he'd be willing to sell separate. He said to make him an offer. What should one expect to pay for the head and the 410, any idea?

[BassPlayerLB]

It's a Gretsch G5442BDC Electromatic Short Scale Hollowbody. I bought it from guitar center back in August and love it!

I would expect to pay somewhere around $650 for that head used. The D410XST is a little harder to find used as well as has 200 watts or so more than the D410XLT. That probably goes for around $800 used. If you get a D410XLT, you can get them as low as $300 used. I think guitar center has one online for $250 used right now! Altogether for the head and the cab I would plan on spending about $1,200 for a D410XLT setup or closer to $1,500 for the D410XST. With the 118 thrown in there $2,000 is about right, maybe high by a $100-200 but definitely no more than that.

[Walknbluez]

Found some more gear for sale on craigslist today. Someone is selling a Crest CA9 power amp and a Genz Benz Uber 212. Anyone have any experience with these? I have no experience whatsoever but I don't want to overlook anything that may be a really good possibility.

[zambiland]

Found some more gear for sale on craigslist today. Someone is selling a Crest CA9 power amp and a Genz Benz Uber 212. Anyone have any experience with these? I have no experience whatsoever but I don't want to overlook anything that may be a really good possibility.

The Crest CA9 is one of the very best power amps I've used for bass. It also weighs a frickin' ton. If you are young and strong, go for it. You'll never find a better amp, maybe equivalent, but never better.

I don't know much about Genz Benz.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Found some more gear for sale on craigslist today. Someone is selling a Crest CA9 power amp and a Genz Benz Uber 212. Anyone have any experience with these? I have no experience whatsoever but I don't want to overlook anything that may be a really good possibility.

The Crest CA9 is one of the very best power amps I've used for bass. It also weighs a frickin' ton. If you are young and strong, go for it. You'll never find a better amp, maybe equivalent, but never better.

I don't know much about Genz Benz.

I've blown up two of those CA9s that I bought used just from running a 4 ohm load, not pushing them too hard. The older ones require you to take apart the case and move a jumper to get them from stereo mode into bridged, too. For my money, I'm way happier with my Crown XLS2500 - cost about $500 brand new at guitar center, weighs 11 lbs instead of about 35-40 lbs, sounds the same to me. (not that I have great speakers at the moment) http://www.crownaudio.com/xls-drivecore.html

Genz Benz makes good stuff. I haven't tried that particular speaker cab, but they get glowing reviews overall and I'm very happy with my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 backup/practice head.

[zambiland]

I've blown up two of those CA9s that I bought used just from running a 4 ohm load, not pushing them too hard. The older ones require you to take apart the case and move a jumper to get them from stereo mode into bridged, too. For my money, I'm way happier with my Crown XLS2500 - cost about $500 brand new at guitar center, weighs 11 lbs instead of about 35-40 lbs, sounds the same to me. (not that I have great speakers at the moment) http://www.crownaudio.com/xls-drivecore.html

Genz Benz makes good stuff. I haven't tried that particular speaker cab, but they get glowing reviews overall and I'm very happy with my Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 backup/practice head.

Wow, that's crazy! I had mine running bridged into 4 ohms pushed on hot summer nights in Denver with no problems. I've used Crowns as well, mostly the XTi series, and the low end oomph did not compare. It claimed to have more watts, but it just didn't deliver as expected.

The weight is more like 50lbs. That was the dealbreaker for me.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Both were used, maybe abused, who knows? Like you said, though - heavy as can be. I'm still using the working half of one as part of my PA but mostly because I'm cheap. I should really pony up for another XLS2500 or two.

I know what you mean about some power amps lacking oomph, I never liked any of the attempts at lightweight/compact power amps using old technology, but with this new Class D stuff I feel quite satisfied. I'd be curious how you like the XLS, it's a much newer series than the XTI, I think.

[Walknbluez]

I didn't realize how heavy those power amps are. I think for now I'm going to stick with my tube amp because of the natural compression that I get out of it. I tried a friend's compression pedal and I didn't like compared to what I was getting without it. I'll stick with the P bass with flats using a pick because I think with proper EQ and tone controls I can get close. So I think I'm going to see how my sound improves by improving my cab. I'd like to go with just one cab. A friend has a Thunderchild 115 he's selling. I saw that Genz Benz Uber 212 I mentioned locally on craigslist. And I have seen the Eden 410XLT locally as well but they didn't really want to split up the amp and cabs. I noticed alot of you use multiple cabs for your gigs. But if you were doing a small club gig with no PA support or a small outdoor venue, like a park, what would be the cab you would use and why, if you were using just one, 10's, 12's, or a 15?

[BassPlayerLB]

I didn't realize how heavy those power amps are. I think for now I'm going to stick with my tube amp because of the natural compression that I get out of it. I tried a friend's compression pedal and I didn't like compared to what I was getting without it. I'll stick with the P bass with flats using a pick because I think with proper EQ and tone controls I can get close. So I think I'm going to see how my sound improves by improving my cab. I'd like to go with just one cab. A friend has a Thunderchild 115 he's selling. I saw that Genz Benz Uber 212 I mentioned locally on craigslist. And I have seen the Eden 410XLT locally as well but they didn't really want to split up the amp and cabs. I noticed alot of you use multiple cabs for your gigs. But if you were doing a small club gig with no PA support or a small outdoor venue, like a park, what would be the cab you would use and why, if you were using just one, 10's, 12's, or a 15?

When I only take 1 cabinet it's my 410XLT. Has a lot more body to it as well as almost 2 times the watts of my 115XLT. In fact Eden claims that the 410 actually handles low frequencies better than their 115. I usually have a hard time getting my 115 to cut through enough by itself, but other 15s may be better. So my vote is the Eden 410XLT. I'm interested to hear what you go with and how it works out for you!

[Walknbluez]

I didn't realize how heavy those power amps are. I think for now I'm going to stick with my tube amp because of the natural compression that I get out of it. I tried a friend's compression pedal and I didn't like compared to what I was getting without it. I'll stick with the P bass with flats using a pick because I think with proper EQ and tone controls I can get close. So I think I'm going to see how my sound improves by improving my cab. I'd like to go with just one cab. A friend has a Thunderchild 115 he's selling. I saw that Genz Benz Uber 212 I mentioned locally on craigslist. And I have seen the Eden 410XLT locally as well but they didn't really want to split up the amp and cabs. I noticed alot of you use multiple cabs for your gigs. But if you were doing a small club gig with no PA support or a small outdoor venue, like a park, what would be the cab you would use and why, if you were using just one, 10's, 12's, or a 15?

When I only take 1 cabinet it's my 410XLT. Has a lot more body to it as well as almost 2 times the watts of my 115XLT. In fact Eden claims that the 410 actually handles low frequencies better than their 115. I usually have a hard time getting my 115 to cut through enough by itself, but other 15s may be better. So my vote is the Eden 410XLT. I'm interested to hear what you go with and how it works out for you!

Thanks! I check the local CL everyday for the Eden but not many come about. There are some on CL but they are two hours away or so. The person selling the rig for sale locally that I told you about with the 410XST wasn't too excited about splitting the pieces up and I don't need the 118 that goes with it.

Like I said I saw a Bergantino AE410 for sale locally but I researched it and I thought the highs were too aggressive, it is known as the "Flea cab" ala Flea from RHCP. But when I emailed the guy about this here is what he said:

"What I can tell you about Berg AE is that the tweeters are far superior to anything I've heard. I've had cabinets from Eden (harsh), SWR (much better than Eden but not Berg) and Warwick (cheap made in china crap). The thing that is different about Berg tweeters is you CAN control them to the point of being asset in instead of a liability. I play a Stingray 5H arguably a mid focused and bitting top/treble end bass and even with new strings the tweeter can be controlled. I also use an Eden Navigator preamp and for me I like the EQ if even needed which on the AE stuff the answer has been just a little or not at all. The cab is 60 lbs and so is lighter than some other 410's. As far as compared to the NV610, the AE can cop that sealed cab thing very well"

Utlimately I just may need to go hook into it and try it but you never know what its going to sound like really until its in the mix.

[Walknbluez]

By the way, since there are alot of Eden 410XLT users here, anyone experienced David Nordschow's new line of stuff, specifically the DNA DNS410 cab?

[Rusty the Scoob]

For me when I use one cab it depends on the venue. Extremely small venues or practice, I'll use my older SWR 2x10" with my Genz-Benz micro head. When I need stage volumes and a compact setup, I'll run my older Eden 1x15" with no tweeter with my rack system. My particular 2x10" just doesn't have the bottom end that an Eden XLT cab can put out.

I agree with P-bass, flats and a pick. You can certainly get in the ballpark with the right eq, I use that setup a lot myself when I'm doing a mixed JGB/GD gig. I'll usually scoop the mids to take away that overly characteristic P-bass tone.

[Walknbluez]

For me when I use one cab it depends on the venue. Extremely small venues or practice, I'll use my older SWR 2x10" with my Genz-Benz micro head. When I need stage volumes and a compact setup, I'll run my older Eden 1x15" with no tweeter with my rack system. My particular 2x10" just doesn't have the bottom end that an Eden XLT cab can put out.

I agree with P-bass, flats and a pick. You can certainly get in the ballpark with the right eq, I use that setup a lot myself when I'm doing a mixed JGB/GD gig. I'll usually scoop the mids to take away that overly characteristic P-bass tone.

On my amp, I've got the mids turned down to almost nothing and it is still pretty mid heavy but close enough. But, that is when running through my cab. When I listen to recordings where I've gone direct to the board, post EQ, I've nailed the tone I want. This is one of the reasons I'm looking into other cabs. The Avatar 212 is a decent "bang for your buck" cab ($250 used) but I can't get the clarity and it is mid heavy I think. So I'm trying to find a cab that will give me the direct to the board sound. I guess a cab that is neutral and won't color my sound?

[Walknbluez]

Thanks again to everyone participating and providing advice.

I mentioned the Genz Benz Uber 212 which is for sale locally for about $500 (they run over $1,000 new) and wanted to get your opinions based on the descriptions as to whether it would fit the Phil bill. I can sell my Avatar 212 and SWR workingman 15 extension cab for a total of about $350. So I'd get this for about $150 net.

Power handling: 600 watt RMS
Frequency +-/10db: 42 - 18k Hz
Sensitivity: 102 db
weight: 63 lbs

Jeff Genzler of Genz Benz describes the 212 Uber cab like this:

"The response of the Uber 212 is quick, thick, and articulate. It has a lower frequency punch to it than the 410 version…the bottom end is just big, round, and meaty. And due to the 12 inch cones, the mid range is clear and concise but a different flavor than you’d get from a 410 cab. And the tweeter tops off the clarity of the cabinet nicely. "

Users who have this cab on talkbass describe it like this:

"It's a loud cab, and tonally, it sits between old school fat and round, but with modern punch and clarity. It's big and fat, and articulate at the same time. Lots of lows, beefy mids, and adjustable tweeter for the top. Like I said, my all time fav mid sized cab. In a way, it reminds me a little of a Mesa Deisel 215, but with a bit more "snap"."

"I've owned both the Uber 212 and the Avatar 212, and was able to AB them. The Uber is much more articulate and refined sounding. The Uber is also noticeably louder than the Avatar"

And finally a video demo from the Bass Whisperer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTh69K9e ... r_embedded

Please fire away with any opinions!

[BassPlayerLB]

I'm not too sure about that cab but after watching the Furthur webcast last night it looks like Phil would agree with me. For the Sweetwater shows (which is about as small a venue as Phil will ever play nowadays) he was using a wt-800 and 2 D410XLT's. I noticed him messing with his EQ settings on the head a lot and he spent much of the set break playing around with it. If you get a chance to watch this weekend check it out. There were a lot of good shots of his EQ settings also!