Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (36w)

Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (36w)

Postby toddsnider » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:32 am

A few weeks ago, after six months of waiting, my custom-made Tiger tribute finally arrived. From the onset, things were slightly amiss: the unity gain buffer and the on-board effects loop ("OBEL") were not working. Nevertheless, I plugged the guitar into my amp, a Kustom ’36 Coupe (36 watts), and the sound was amazing. The tone was clear and I could get it to wail.

Wanting to get the buffer and the OBEL working, I took it to my friendly neighborhood guitar shop, where they noticed that my luthier's electrician had failed to connect these two components to the proper wiring. They fixed the issue, and played the guitar for me -- it sounded just fine. They also plugged in an effects pedal, using my StewMac 1/4" stereo y-cable. The OBEL worked perfectly.

Unfortunately, upon returning home, I was confronted with an entirely new array of problems. Hopefully someone can offer me some advice.

---

1) My primary issue is achieving a decent volume output. When my guitar first arrived, although the buffer and the OBEL were non-functional, the pots sounded amazing; I could get the guitar to wail loudly with my amp turned about halfway up. Now, the buffer and the OBEL are functional, but I can barely achieve adequate volume output from the amp. I’ll plug in the guitar, move the 5-way pickup selector to, say, the neck position, turn the neck pickup’s volume and tone knobs to their maximums, then turn the amp’s volume and master volume knobs to their maximums. Yet, even in this configuration, the guitar is only about as loud as my Fender practice amp (15 watts) – roughly a quarter as loud as it originally was, when I played it despite the malfunctioning buffer and OBEL.

2) The second problem I’m experiencing lies in the OBEL itself, which does not appear to be working. With my effects pedals turned on, I adjust the tone knobs on the guitar, but the depth of the effects does not change. At least, not noticeably. However, I may simply be unable to tell due to the aforementioned inadequate volume output.

3) The third problem I’m experiencing also involves the on-board effects loop. My guitar, as with Tiger, contains three micro-switches below the knobs. The third of these switches, at the bridge end of the guitar, turns the OBEL on and off. The point of the OBEL is to be able to increase or decrease the depth of your effects using the tone controls on the guitar. Therefore, it follows that, were the OBEL to be turned off, the tone controls on the guitar must act normally, as would any other tone controls on any other guitar. Yet, on my Tiger, when you flip this switch to the “off” position, the output cuts off altogether; that is to say, you can’t hear anything coming out of the amp.

4) Lastly, the guitar should theoretically be able to be used like a normal guitar – I should be able to plug it directly into the amp, without using a second cord for the OBEL. Unfortunately, I am unable to do so. When I try, the volume output is too low to hear, even with all the possible volume-related settings turned to the maximum.

---

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I know that the cause of these problems is not improper configuration, as I'm sure that I’ve been plugging all the jacks into the right places (OBEL = top jack / tip = send / ring = receive / amp = bottom jack). Personally, I believe that my amp is at the heart of the problem, because the guitar appeared to be working just fine at the local shop. The technician plugged it into a 20 watt amp (16 watts less than mine) and it sounded just fine – much louder than it does on my Kustom. He also plugged in an effects pedal, and the OBEL worked as it should. When the OBEL was on, the tone knobs on the guitar adjusted the depth of the effect he was using. And when he flipped the OBEL micro-switch to the “off” position, the tone knobs resumed their normal functions, but the overall volume did not cut out one bit.

With regards to problem 4: the technician did not try to play the guitar with just a direct-to-amp cord (bypassing the OBEL entirely), so I cannot speak to whether that problem is also unique to my amp. That being said, though, I have a feeling that, if the other three problems are unique to my guitar, this one must be as well.

Thanks!
Todd
toddsnider
Vince
Vince
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby gpilcher2001 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:13 am

Try switching the loop plugs on the pedal or your guitar. You might be plugged in backwards to the loop. The tone controls aren't going to give you that much adjustment it goes more bright all the way up to honky all the way down. Try a new battery. Greg...
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
User avatar
gpilcher2001
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:54 pm
Location: colorado

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby toddsnider » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:16 am

gpilcher2001 wrote:Try switching the loop plugs on the pedal or your guitar. You might be plugged in backwards to the loop. The tone controls aren't going to give you that much adjustment it goes more bright all the way up to honky all the way down. Try a new battery. Greg...


Thanks for the reply. Like I said, I'm sure I've been plugging it in the right way. Any other way and no sound comes out whatsoever. At least in this configuration some sound comes out, though, like I said, not much.
toddsnider
Vince
Vince
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby czyfingers » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:36 am

It could be an issue with your cabling for the OBEL too. Are you using any kind of junction box? what is your cabling setup?It's unlikely that its the amp. If you plug in another nonOBEL guitar to the amp and it operates normal, the amp is fine. It sounds to me like something is not wired correctly in the guitar. Especially if you're not getting anything with the loop bypassed. (Assuming the cables are connected correctly). You have to troubleshoot and eliminate things one at a time....try another guitar with the amp, try different cables, make sure the cables are connected properly, check the battery, check the connections between all your pedals etc. if all that stuff is good, it's likely something in the wiring or a component in the guitar. What's troubling is you're getting no output with the OBEL off. You should be able to plug a normal cable from the output of the guitar straight to your amp with the OBEL switch in the bypass position and play it like any other guitar. If you can't do that with a known good cable and amp, the issue lives in the guitar. It's hard to diagnose any further than that without more details about what's in there or seeing it. What kind of buffer is it?
The tone knob is just that....an over all tone control. Really has nothing to do with the depth of effects. Depending on the value of the pot and the cap used with it, its effect can be subtle.
I hope this helps. There's so much involved in these rigs and everything has to be just exactly perfect for it to work right.
czyfingers
Mickey
Mickey
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:22 pm
Location: Poughkeepsie, New York

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby Chuckles » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:47 am

Just curious... Who built this brand new, non-working Tiger???
Seems like I've been here before...

The Road's Facebook Page (including links to tunage) is here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Road/ ... 200?ref=nf
User avatar
Chuckles
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: DC

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby waldo041 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:33 am

what would help to diagnose your issues would be some detailed photos of the wiring, and/or a good detailed schematic of the wiring.

also, the "point" of the OBEL (OnBoard Effects Loop) is to be able to send a full volume/voltage signal to the effects for a consistent result from them each time. the tone controls have NO greater control in the effects loop as they do outside the effects loop. ie.. you should get the same results from them with the OBEL on as you do with the OBEL off.

make sure you have a good battery..

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby Pete B. » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:50 pm

So???
Any update on things?

I'm sure that I’ve been plugging all the jacks into the right places (OBEL = top jack / tip = send / ring = receive / amp = bottom jack).

fwiw, on my Tiger, with the guitar strapped on and in playing position, the top jack is the guitar cord, and the bottom jack is the OBEL (and you have to have the send/receive plugged in correctly).

It's quite probable that your guitar cannot be used like a regular guitar anymore. You must have a battery now for any sound to come out. This is one reason why I like to have a OBEL pedal, instead of in the guitar.

How does the amp respond with a standard unmodded guitar?
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby toddsnider » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:31 pm

Pete B. wrote:So???
Any update on things?

fwiw, on my Tiger, with the guitar strapped on and in playing position, the top jack is the guitar cord, and the bottom jack is the OBEL (and you have to have the send/receive plugged in correctly).

It's quite probable that your guitar cannot be used like a regular guitar anymore. You must have a battery now for any sound to come out. This is one reason why I like to have a OBEL pedal, instead of in the guitar.

How does the amp respond with a standard unmodded guitar?


Hmm, no luck so far. Thanks for the input guys.

Yeah, my Tiger is definitely the reverse - the top input is for OBEL and the bottom is for the amp.

I get what you're saying about how it can't be played like a regular guitar anymore; it makes sense that it would need the OBEL configured in order to work properly. That being said, the amp is indeed working with an unmodded guitar, so I would venture to guess that the problem lies in the OBEL.
toddsnider
Vince
Vince
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby Pete B. » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:33 pm

I may have missed it...
Did you confirm that you have a fresh battery in there, in the correct orientation?
User avatar
Pete B.
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1784
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:59 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby toddsnider » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:37 pm

Yes, I just put a brand new one in. Although, I don't think that the battery could have been the issue -- if it were dead, the guitar wouldn't have worked at the shop. This is also why I don't believe that a faulty cord is involved.
toddsnider
Vince
Vince
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby myoung6923 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:57 pm

Who built the guitar? Can't you contact them and have them ship it back and fix it?
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us

http://www.fennario.us
http://www.youtube.com/fennarioband
http://www.facebook.com/fennarioband
User avatar
myoung6923
Senior Member
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:47 am
Location: South Shore, MA

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby playingdead » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:08 pm

toddsnider wrote:
Pete B. wrote:Yeah, my Tiger is definitely the reverse - the top input is for OBEL and the bottom is for the amp.


This is the way Gary Brawer wired my guitar. The jack closest to the Tiger emblem is the main guitar output. The effects loop toggle is the toggle closest to the neck.

You should be able to plug the guitar straight into the amp, and with the effects loop switch off, the volume and tone controls should operate normally. Leave the TRS cable out of the guitar. With the effects loop switch on, the output should be cut completely. If it's not working like that, try switching jacks on the guitar.

Once you have that straightened out, take a single pedal, switched off, and plug the two effects loop end cables into it, and then plug the effects cable into the guitar. When you engage the effects loop, the signal should be identical to the signal with the effects loop off, i.e., no loss of volume or tone.

Now turn the pedal on, and engage the loop. If you lose the signal, you have the tip and ring cables backwards into the pedal. Reverse them, and try it again.

The effects are either all the way on with the loop engaged, or all the way off with it disengaged. There is no mixing the effected and non-effected signal with this wiring scheme.
User avatar
playingdead
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby TI4-1009 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 am

Can you post a clear photo of your control cavity so we can see the wiring?
"Do not write so that you can be understood, write so that you cannot be misunderstood." -Epictetus

First show: 8/16/69 (Woodstock)
Last show: 3/19/95 (Unbroken Chain breakout)
Member of the Four-Decade Club
Charter Member, President & CEO of OAD (Order of the Ancient Deadheads)
User avatar
TI4-1009
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1489
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Upstate NY- Toodaloo

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby toddsnider » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:10 pm

TI4-1009 wrote:Can you post a clear photo of your control cavity so we can see the wiring?


Here's a photo of the control cavity and the wiring schematic (more or less). I tried attaching them to this post, but it said that the Board's attachment quota "has been reached," so I uploaded them to an imgur gallery:

http://imgur.com/8wiEV
http://imgur.com/uRLzh
http://imgur.com/CwHk6
toddsnider
Vince
Vince
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Issues with Tiger tribute guitar, Kustom '36 Coupe amp (

Postby waldo041 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:43 pm

toddsnider wrote:
TI4-1009 wrote:Can you post a clear photo of your control cavity so we can see the wiring?


Here's a photo of the control cavity and the wiring schematic (more or less). I tried attaching them to this post, but it said that the Board's attachment quota "has been reached," so I uploaded them to an imgur gallery:

http://imgur.com/8wiEV
http://imgur.com/uRLzh
http://imgur.com/CwHk6


based on your photos.

1.) what did you ask for wiring wise for this Tiger Tribute?

2.) you do know that this is NOT wired like any JG guitar?

i would like to help you, but i have no idea what the wiring is suppose to be. i do know that it contains 3 dual-ganged pot's with none of the value nor material of the known jerry caps. also none of the "hot" pickup wires are wired directly to the 5 way as they would be in a JG wiring scheme.

again, would love to help out...

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
User avatar
waldo041
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Indiana

Next

Return to Jerry Tone

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests