Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby Mosfed » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:36 pm

I was lucky enough to see the whole run at the Meadowlands. The 16th was the clear favorite with the 14th (Saturday) as a nice second. I was off my face for the 12th and nearly lost it during He's Gone. I had forgotten that the Wolf was busted out during it. I remembered it from the Hampton shows. I don't think he used it on the 16th. There is a decent board of the 12th that I will have to revisit.

Re: midi - I have yet to crack that nut. I have a Roland equipped Wolf with a GR-55 but I have yet to be able get tones out of it that I really like. Plus you have to play completely differently or it sounds like you are playing a guitar with a horn sound and not a horn. Worth experimenting more with. But there is a pretty steep learning curve.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby Mosfed » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:44 pm

The last show I remember seeing Wolf at was 2/23/1993 (the night with Ornette Coleman etc) at the Oakland Coliseum (good show btw).

And for the discussion on Tiger / Rosebud / Bolt on the last tour - the last show for Bolt was 6/4/1995 at Shoreline. It wasn't used for any of the East Coast portion of the tour. In the shop for whatever reason. So Rosebud was the main axe for the East Coast and then i read that sometime during the last show at Soldier Field, Rosebud developed an issue so he finished the show on Tiger. Deadbase X has some killer picts. And you can see that straight from Highgate it was all Rosebud until July 9th.

But looking at video, I do not see him playing Tiger. Most of the show pre drums is on YouTube and its Rosebud. The encore is also on YouTube and its rosebud. So unless its only for Box of Rain...
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby jenkins » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:24 am

Is it possible rosebud was in the shop getting fitted with a piezo pup?
Could this be where the rumor of Jerry actually using a piezo pup came from?
We know he never used one on stage but there are definitely reports that he was plannin on using one in the future.

Supposedly another guitar was being built for him that had piezo on it. Was this cripes "masterpiece" guitar that blew up in the explosion that killed him or were they fitting rosebud with the piezo?
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby Mosfed » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:13 am

Rosebud was on the whole last tour so if it was in the shop, it was post tour. The rumor is that he played Tiger at the last show, but this doesn't seem to be true from video or pictures unless it was during the last half of the second set and he switched back to Rosebud for the encore or if he just played it on Box of Rain.

Maybe you are thinking of Bolt which missed the whole East Coast run.

I listened to 10.12.89 yesterday. There is a rather annoying clip on a drum that permeates most of the show. Wondering if there is a better source. It's not toooo bad but it could be better.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby jenkins » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:55 am

Yea I definitely meant to say bolt not Rosie.


As for the 10-12 show I watched the video on YouTube and the sound is straight.
Definitely doesn't have the drum clipping that your talkin about, at least that I heard.

Last week when I made this thread was the first time that I actually listened to an 80's show all the way through in like a couple years. I'm a 70's guy, most of the 80's just don't do it for me, but these fall 89-spring 90 had some real magic going on.

Apparently Phil thinks that fall 89 & spring 90 was the best era ever for the grateful dead, well at least his favorite, which is saying a lot. Not 72, or 74 w the wos, or spring 77, or 82, but spring 90 he thinks was the best dead tour ever. I found that interesting.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby RiverRat » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:56 am

tigerstrat wrote:
jenkins wrote:Does anyone know when he busted tiger back out? I really wanna hear a comparison of tiger and wolf;it's gotta be one of the only times we can compare tiger n wolf on the same rig, I'm very interested in the tonal differences.

You CAN compare Wolf vs Tiger in the same show, beginning with Deer Creek 7/15/89 and the Alpine shows. But these are mostly using Wolf just for Space. Best comparison probably comes during Alpine 7/19/89 (Downhill From Here) where he actually plays the first half of "Other One" on Wolf and then switches back to Tiger.




Quick Breakdown...

@1:50 - Wolf (MIDI)
@3:25 - Wolf through twin
@5:20 - 5:30 Switches from Wolf to Tiger
@6:15 - Tiger through Twin
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby Mosfed » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:36 am

jenkins wrote:Yea I definitely meant to say bolt not Rosie.


As for the 10-12 show I watched the video on YouTube and the sound is straight.
Definitely doesn't have the drum clipping that your talkin about, at least that I heard.

Last week when I made this thread was the first time that I actually listened to an 80's show all the way through in like a couple years. I'm a 70's guy, most of the 80's just don't do it for me, but these fall 89-spring 90 had some real magic going on.

Apparently Phil thinks that fall 89 & spring 90 was the best era ever for the grateful dead, well at least his favorite, which is saying a lot. Not 72, or 74 w the wos, or spring 77, or 82, but spring 90 he thinks was the best dead tour ever. I found that interesting.


It's very subtle. And I only hear it over headphones. But annoying once you notice it. it's on the version on youtube. I saw an interview with Bobby re: the newish Spring 90 boxset where he agrees with Phil on the quality of the period. I personally got on the bus in 1985 and went to the end. The best I saw was fall 1989 through Fall 1991. And then spring 93-summer 1993. Cal Expo 1993 with that UNREAL Playin was definitely one of the best.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby jenkins » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:58 am

Thank you river rat for posting the video, and thank you tigerstrat for pointing that whole thing out, that jam is fucking sick. Jerry is on fire, it's so sweet. The boys are on top of their game right there, lucky motherfuckers you guys on here that were at that show. At my age closest I could get to that was the alpine valley grateful dead family reunion with the other ones, I believe they were calling themselves then. That was the lineup with just jimmy herring on the guitar who I thought killed it. That was my favorite TOO lineup, he just has a sick tone. Until furthur that's the closest I thought it got, they raged alpine valley rough. I genuinely had the feeling after leaving that show of yea, this is why we all tracks thousands of miles and see hundreds of shows, to catch those magical nights that are just purely epic, a feeling like no other, a religious experience in a way, I always thought.
Watching those videos that's the sense I got from that night too, the people there knew they were witnessing something truly specialt you can't see anywhere else on earth.
It's almost sad it's named 'downhill from here' , it's so true. They were at the peak of their career in late 89-90 and they played great shows after but it was downhill from there.
Jerry was so on top of his game, his tone was too, just fkn sick

Couple comments on wolf v tiger:
He's using midi all the way through the beginning of that for sure, sounds sick. Sounds like there's one part where he might be mixing some mutron into his midi and it sounds sick, he's doing something crazy.
But then when he switches to wolf into the twin it sounds great, but when he throws on tiger(which took more like 30 seconds than 10 but that's still pretty quick) tiger clearly cuts through better. Idk if tiger is just a louder guitar in general but the tone def cut through more. But when you listen to wolf on the 10/12 show it seems to be cutting through just fine the way tiger did.
Do you guys think tiger got upgraded electronics between summer and fall tour or did he just turn his amp up more? Seems like at first he thought tiger was the better guitar but then for fall tour he chose wolf only with the midi. I was thinking he actually liked wolf better once they tuned her up. Wonder if they had changed anything from the 70's before that alpine show.
The whole thing is just interesting to me.
Fat man on the top of his game, the effects mast, the tone master.

The closest they've come to this is clearly furthur, which I think sounds most like 89-90 dead. Which is interesting bc its Phil's favorite era and I think Bobby's too. Bobby is on fire in that jam right there
Furthur is by far the closest to this sound but when you listen to shit like this, and then you watch a furthur YouTube after it you realize JK's tone ain't got shit on Jerry's. He's doing a good job, he's in the style of Jerry, but his tone is weak compared to garcia's, but Garcia was also the tone master so it's pretty hard to even compare
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby GeneralGoldilocks » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:01 pm

jenkins wrote:Yea I definitely meant to say bolt not Rosie.


As for the 10-12 show I watched the video on YouTube and the sound is straight.
Definitely doesn't have the drum clipping that your talkin about, at least that I heard.

Last week when I made this thread was the first time that I actually listened to an 80's show all the way through in like a couple years. I'm a 70's guy, most of the 80's just don't do it for me, but these fall 89-spring 90 had some real magic going on.

Apparently Phil thinks that fall 89 & spring 90 was the best era ever for the grateful dead, well at least his favorite, which is saying a lot. Not 72, or 74 w the wos, or spring 77, or 82, but spring 90 he thinks was the best dead tour ever. I found that interesting.


hmmm.... just got done reading searching for the sound, phil's book, and it seemed like phil could be directly quoted as saying the shows with the wall of sound were hands down by far his favorite and the favorite era of the dead for him.... I was suprised (because I love 89-90) by how little good he had to say about 89/90 with brent, although it seemed like he was trying to paint a dark picture due to Brent's personal issues at that specific time leading up to his death. He seemed way more stoked to be playing with Hornsby in 91. Anyway, there is some amazing shit from 89.90. and 91, and jerry playing the wolf is just super cool. just checked out the second night of the alpine valley run (meet me at the movies) 07-18-89 and jerry busted out the wolf during space and plays it to start dear mister fantasy, but changes to the tiger mid song after maybe starting the solo and unplugging wolf? you can maybe see his input jack dangling? i was thinking, wow jer!, works better if it's plugged in! Just heard a 5/10/91 show on satelitte radio that blew my doors off.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby jenkins » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:24 am

Hey generalgold- that's what I thought too was the WOS era was their favorite and I remember reading that in the book too.
Love that book.
But then like last week I was talkin to someone on the phone and he read me a quote from Phil where he said 89-90 was his all time favorite runs of shows, the without a net time, which was clearly a peak for the boys. I still like 76-77 well reall 73-78 better but fall 89-spring 90 has got me listening to anythin other than 70's dead for the first time in at least a couple years.
Maybe Phil, like a lot of us, can't even decide what era was his favorite. For years I bounced back and forth between what I thought I liked best. It's 76-77 for me, but 89-90 the band was a monster.

All of you guys that got to see those shows are lucky mothafuckies...you bastards!! Hahaha

I gotta watch that vid you mentioned in your post, watching him switch from wolf to tiger during TOO>the wheel is awesome, what a cool guy to bust out wolf like that.

I still wanna know what updates to wolf they did before fall of 89 when he decided to not just use it for space midi jams but rather the whole show. In the alpine clip tiger is clearly louder and clearer sounding.
But then when you listen to fall, like 10/12 wolf sounds just as clear and crisp as tiger did.

I wonder what they did to the wolf to make Jerry like it enough to play the whole tour over tiger.

I also wonder why it was rosier that got fitted with midi and not tiger. Did he think tiger was too cool to chop up like that or something?
I've always found it interesting how they changed with the decades, tiger came out right for the start of the 80's and was retired right at the end. Rosie came out literally for the start of the 90's. Interesting how their tone changed with the decades.
What a fucking cool band, there's still nobody even in the same ballpark IMO.

I gotta say- bobby is in fire in those videos as well
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby Mosfed » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:08 pm

I found Phil's book pretty deeply depressing

I got on the bus in '85 and saw shows through '95. To hear how bummed they were with the grind and all the people they had to support during those 10 years was hard. I had such a great time that to hear that they were hating it was just sad.
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:33 pm

Mosfed wrote:I found Phil's book pretty deeply depressing

I got on the bus in '85 and saw shows through '95. To hear how bummed they were with the grind and all the people they had to support during those 10 years was hard. I had such a great time that to hear that they were hating it was just sad.


I'm sure when they were in the midst of soaring through all those brilliant Estimateds, Bird Songs, Cassidys, Scarlets, etc., that they didn't consider that a "grind". The hotels and airports... yes.

I boarded at the same time, but you had to almost be living under a rock to not know at that time that there were major issues hounding them: Jerry's heroin bust, his subsequent diabetic coma, his enlarged heart condition a few years later...

I would have loved a little more detail about "my" time seeing the GD, but was not surprised at all that his book focused on the formative years of the band up to the hiatus, and then just hitting a few major highlights (and lowlights) after that.
"There, in huge black letters, was 'The Grateful Dead'. It just... cancelled my mind out."-Garcia
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Re: Jerry playing wolf in '89 10-12-89 meadowlands

Postby zambiland » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:41 pm

I think it's pretty hard to take anything any of those guys says at any one time as definitive. Just like the music itself, I'm sure their perspective changes all the time.
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