Furthur ~ All Good!!!

[RiverRat]

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[Cmnaround]

Furthur totally rocks hands down no question about it. This is absolutely the best line up since the real deal. Phil and friends and Ratdog are cool, but putting Bobby and Phil together brings it back to the Grateful Dead. Three relatively young guys with lot of energy and stamina - who know the tunes and the scene - like Phil said "this is a music scene" - provide the perfect setting for Phil and Bobby to just flourish. And finally after all these years they finally got someone who plays like Jerry - der - Thank You!

I appreciate DSO - never saw or heard them - but John adds what was missing. Someone who spent thousands of hours listening to tapes of shows and just playing the songs - is exactly what Phil and Bobby needed to get back to where they belong - playing grateful Dead music. And Jeff totally rocks the keys - coincidence he looks like Brent circa 1981? That works for me. Do I mind hearing what sounds like Jerry when I see this line up? Um that's the point right? People who have seen this line up know what I'm talking about. If you haven't had a chance, do it while you can because it's that good.

The other night in Philly some people were pissed bobby played a 20 minute corrina - which totally rocked - and then dropped an almost 20 min days between near the end of the second set. Well it was really beautiful - like those moments when you could hear a whisper during one of Jerry's Stella blues . Anyway, don't mean to rant but finally after 20 years - since Brent died - I have been able to see the band like they were back in the day and it just makes me incredibly satisfied. Bottom line is that having someone play like Jerry and Brent works and it is nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed by because they might be "copying" Jerry amd Brents styles - dudes that is the whole point - and I hope as musicians when we go to see them play and lay down the magic we realize they are teaching us the way the songs should be played so we can carry it on for future generations to experience the same magic.
Rock on brothers and sisters!

[Grateful Ed65]

I gave away 4 tickets to Grateful heads @ the Sun night Coney Island show and am looking for a lttle love in return. If anyone has 2 for the Thurs Nokia show and is as kind and not only in it for the gold please turn on your love light. I am willing to pay face or close to it. I don't need a miricle, just a friend of the devils.

[Mick]

As for picking Vince---think "high vocal harmonies"

Going totally from 20 year old memories here, but I remember an interview where Jerry basically said this directly. It was also my understanding that Jerry and Vince were friends before Vince's inclusion in the GD.

I actually thought Vince's act worked reasonably well when he was in The Tubes, and although I have been probably his biggest supporter on this board saying that Vince was not as bad as most folks say, I'll admit that the band never really worked well when he was a member. I've read a lot of speculation of why that was, having to do with Vince being very restricted on what he could and couldn't play and such, but I don't think that was the real reason. I stopped going to shows in '92 or '93, but I have heard and read that by the time '94 came around, JG needed to be reminded regularly what song they were playing. I think one of the best parts of the band from '79-'90 was the Brent/JG interaction, but I don't think it was possible for Vince to develop that kind of interaction with Jerry in the condition he was.

[tcsned]

I stopped going to shows in '92 or '93, but I have heard and read that by the time '94 came around, JG needed to be reminded regularly what song they were playing. I think one of the best parts of the band from '79-'90 was the Brent/JG interaction, but I don't think it was possible for Vince to develop that kind of interaction with Jerry in the condition he was.

+1 - I don't know what could have become of the band with Vince if Jerry had been more on top of things but to blame him for the bands issues after Brent's death is misplacing blame IMHO. I stopped going to shows in '93 because Jerry was playing like crap for the most part. There were moments of the guitar player I loved but they were fleeting. Of course, I hoped that the ship would right itself and I would get back on board . . .

I don't think Vince demonstrated the depth to his playing the Keith and Brent did but it's hard to say with what he had to deal with. Bruce Hornsby certainly had the chops but to me it seemed like the peaks and valleys disappeared when he played. The valleys became piano breaks

[Phil Lesh101]

Those lyrics aren't quite correct that you posted above. The Lyrics are by: Robert Hunter and Music is by : Phil Lesh

Travel to the silver moon
Years roll by
You can die, [trip] to go
Songs are sung
Growing old, growing young

Life is long, let it said
Sing your song to the dead
[Carve in] the breeze to the void
[Run cross] run dry

All the colors of the rain
All the colors of the dew
All the colors of the rain

Other waves, other shores
Other days, other doors
All the stages of the play
Other ages, other days

All the colors of the rain
All the colors of the dew
All the colors of the rain
Yield to you
Yield to you
Yield to you

Who shall say, who was he?
Who condemned, who believed?
To be near, to explain
Who concealed, who remained?

Distant lifes, different names
Another ride, just the same
Just the same

All the colors of the rain
All the colors of the dew
All the colors of the rain
Yield to you
Yield to you
Yield to you

All the colors of the rain
All the colors of the dew
All the colors of the rain
Yield to you
Yield to you
Yield to you

[wolftigerrosebud]

While I certainly don't hate Furthur (at all; I've seen them twice and if they lower their ticket prices from 70 fucking dollars -- ridiculous -- then I'd definitely see them again), I do wish they'd gone an entirely new direction instead of finding guys who weren't Jerry players and expecting them to fill the Jerry role. At least they're consistent now with wanting a Jerry player and actually having one.

But Jimmy Herring and Kimock... I mean, those guys are beastly. I guess my opinion, and it's as meaningless and arbitrary and unintentionally influenced by my own perspective as everyone else's is, is just that if Phil and Bob had been more willing to step outside of the material, sound, format, and performance experience they'd grown comfortable with, there could have been a much more interesting, if less Dead-like, direction for the groups to have gone in. Probably wouldn't have sold as many tickets, but it would also be new, it would have an individual life from musical voices that belonged solely to the musicians playing in the band. And there's something about that you can't really fake.

I'd rather listen to stuff that isn't based on the Dead's format or just listen to the Dead themselves. Good as many of the other groups are, when it comes down to it I'd rather listen to Jerry and the original exploration of the music. He's still the best. And if I want something that isn't Dead music for a change... Maybe some different music! Like putting on some Julian Breams or some Animal Collective or some Sigur Ros or something that's just different. I just don't see the point of Jerry without Jerry when there's so much totally different great music out there. Clinging! It's boring. If you're going for the Dead show experience, that's a wholly different thing. But for the music? I just can't see it. I'd just as soon put on a Jerry recording.

There are modern groups doing weird, interesting, psychedelic stuff that's not at all like the Dead. Just like the Dead weren't really like anything that had come before them. There seems something very anti-Dead in spirit in the whole clinging to comfortable patterns about how shows should sound, how freeform jams should fit into a show. The whole point in the times when the Dead were doing it was that it was OK for there to be a lot of times where it wasn't comfortable, where it was new and unfamiliar, unexplored. Newness isn't everything, but... you know... a balance of all things.

So treading across the same ground is a fucking blast when it's such fertile ground. But when I see people calling Kadlecik "the second coming of Garcia", it's just like... c'mon, man. There's a lot of great music out there. And I might as well listen to Jerry if I'm going to listen to Furthur. Going to a concert is a different story, but that still doesn't elevate Furthur beyond being essentially the best Dead cover band ever -- Jerry's musical voice can't evolve anymore! Ever! And I listen to the Dead for Jerry primarily, as great as the rest are. Does anyone not? Anyone listen primarily for the other band members? Seriously? If you do, I respect your opinion as being as important and meaningful as anyone else's -- which is to say, not at all ( ). I just don't know if anyone out there actually could take or leave Jerry as opposed to, say, Bob, given the choice.

Also, blaming Vince for the musical lethargy of a band whose core members were all totally fucked up and burnt out seems entirely unfair and unrealistic. By the time Vince got there, Jerry had no interest anymore. He said it himself. Vince never got a fair chance like any of the band members before him, and he got way too much blame for two-and-a-half decades' worth of seriously painful shit happening to one group of people.

But whatever. Furthur's about love, the way I see it. Love of the music. Band loves the crowd, crowd loves the band. Everyone wants to support each other. That part's damn beautiful. But I seriously just don't enjoy it. I don't think the band is as good as the Dead with Jerry. It still feels out of balance to me when I listen to it. So much so that I can't enjoy it, even though I want to (really). But, then again, what the fuck do I know? Not much, that's what. But I've got a lot to say about it!

[hotasaPistol]

If you don't enjoy it stay home and listen to recordings......if you don't like it that's your choice.......you are DEAD WRONG......about what they are doing now......the band is more energized.....more on top of their chops......broke out songs we never would have heard again with Jerry and the set lists are freakin off the hook....there are many more surprises and it is way freakin cool...they all take turns driving the bus and also have new songs......it is the closest to what it used to be.....this is better than the last couple of years with Jerry's degeneration...Its not Vince's fault but he didn't help.......
as far as a live in the moment NOW concert setting it is the best it has been since Jer croaked.......still get the vibes of going on a time warp traveling to cosmic musical happiness....there are still clams but there always were.......besides its Phil and Bobs band and I always wonder what Chimineti would have sounded like playing with Jerry....to me he is the secret weapon that holds it all together

[wolftigerrosebud]

The only thing that's dead wrong is telling other people their opinions are dead wrong. Unless you're into spreading around not-very-good-vibes, in which case... I dunno. Do whatever you want.

That being said, it's cool that you can dig it.

[Smolder]

I'm a huge Jerry fan, but the dead are much more than Jerry... they are a band. If you want to hear the dif you can obviously find tons of JGB stuff. That is the 'Jerry band'.

Given the age of these guys I think Further was a smart move. It's a dead show and is generating a lot of nostalgic coolness for fans. Eight years ago it might have been cool for these guys to reinvent themselves and challenge their audience... but that would have meant a 2-3 year gamble on adoption of the scene... at this point I don't see Phil touring in 5 years... not sure about Bobby.

Who knows why they do the Further thing... nostalgia, money, comfort... doesn't really matter what we think, the show sells AND it's quite good.

[wolftigerrosebud]

My point about listening to the Dead for Jerry was poorly stated in my first post -- sorry. I guess what I was really trying to say is that it seems pretty commonly acknowledged that Jerry was the guiding light for the band. Yes, I listen to the Dead for all their members. Yes, I've heard the Garcia Band before.

The Dead seemed to come to rely on the musical inspiration that would flow through Jerry so freely and frequently. But Kadlecik plays in Jerry's musical voice, and Jerry's voice will never evolve any further. Thus... Kadlecik arrives with a natural disadvantage. I guess that's a part of my personal disappointment in Furthur which I was trying to convey.

And the other thing I wasn't saying, but which I was (clearly unsuccessfully) trying to imply, was that I don't think Kadlecik is as talented as Jerry was. I mean, just nowhere near. The inspiration that came through Jerry doesn't come through JK. It sounds almost exactly like Jerry's inspired moments, but all of JK's playing I've heard is just that: emulation of another person's inspired moments.

Forgive me if you disagree -- it's just what I hear. I have no other point of reference, after all. It's not meant as a criticism of anyone who plays in the style. After all, it's not my desire or intent to insult myself and half the people on this board. It's just how I hear it. It essentially sounds like Dark Star did, except all the other members of the band are incredibly good. You know, like as good as possible. But the pivotal piece is... Uh... Missing, shall we say? Again, my view. Don't take it personally, please.

And I also agree that it's cool for the band and for the fans that Furthur is around. It is, indeed, what everyone was waiting for throughout the Other Ones and the Dead experiments. What I'm saying is meant as no criticism of anyone. Merely as a (hopefully) respectful expression of what one person's "problem" with Furthur is, since the point had been raised.

[TI4-1009]

No one disagrees that the pivotal piece is missing. Nothing's gonna bring him back.

I just finished "Garcia- An American Life", and I was there for most of the whole trip- Jerry was in big trouble the last few years and wasn't bringing much to the party. Dare I say he was holding back the band the last few years? I heard all the iterations after Jerry died, none satisfied me until JK joined the band (ymmv).

The Dead evolved quite a bit early on, but then settled into a pretty steady groove. I'm not sure- with or without Jerry- that they were going to evolve much more. At one point Phil talked about things getting stuck in a rut, he wanted to shake things up, but it never happened. New songs added, yes. Significant change in "The Dead", most likely not. That's just natural for people or groups.

I'll just say I'm pretty happy with what we have today. And like I always said- everything after the '75 "retirement" has been gravy. At that point we thought things might be over- 10 years was a good run for a band.

[Smolder]

Hey Wolf... I wasn't necessarily disputing your opinion. I agree, it's not at the same level as the grateful dead and the live recordings I've got don't get listened to as much as the older original stuff. Mostly I was trying to offer a differing perspective... if you were them, at that stage in their carrier, what would be you approach and priority?

We all miss Jerry. Those shoes aren't likely to ever be filled. I hope JK isn't saddled with that task.

[mgbills]

My perceptions on Jerry fall both into straight up idolatry ...and all the way to a realism that borders on blasphemy. Jerry's incredible talent infused every aspect of the band. Jerry inspired most of us to play. But here's the blasphemy...his addiction robbed him (& us) of much of the masters potential. (Said many times before by others) I feel like his decline became obvious in '78, and walked steadily downward until the end. It's like he grew into the tremendous proclivity for spontaneous creation, and then steadily walked in the other direction. Others may mark the timing diffently. I was only on the Bus since '81.

This is not to say that there weren't shiny runs, & shiny shows, & if we look at the glow of the '89-ish period ...shiny tours. But there was a weight to many shows of that era that had the stink of obligation. Just like many of the rest of, the boys were showing up for work. The shiny seed of inspirational divinity becoming increasingly elusive. This is just the place I'm in now. I worshipped every moment in those days. But I can see a bigger picture now. The Archive is out there as a book of evidence. Before it was 3 tapes, and then 10 tapes, and then 30 tapes, .... It had the sense that any day could be another 6/24/70 or 2/26/77....

It's just my perspective, but the only iteration post-Garcia that had much of any drive & inspiration was the run with Joan Osbourne. And that is not to say that Mr. Kimock, Mr. Herring or Warren Haynes are not great players (although I don't think Warren was a good fit.) What I did not see in those interations is a blooming of "Everyone" in the band.

These Furthur shows are absolutely heading in new directions. I percieve it being driven by different players, changing almost every song...and not in any particular order. John is not Jerry. He's not "leading" the changes. He's playing "with" musicians who are increasingly sounding like a Dead-folk-Jazz band. Rambling & disolving has become deconstruction & reinvention. The band seems totally into it every night. They seem to be constantly pushing each other musically & intellectually...not pulling each other out of the bus. John increasingly shows us John, with defference to the Master & as classically trained musician coming into his own.

What I see is evolution & professionalism. Musicians challenging themselves. What I don't see is a band hoping their beloved leader will have ....one more good night.

Just another rambling opinion.
Peace
M

[Mr.Burns]

I only saw Furthur twice this year. I, too, just can't get into it, even though I want to. It still feels like something's missing, there's no other way to describe it. And the ticket prices do kinda make me feel like it's about money...which I could get over, if attending didn't make me feel so awkward.