Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby bdhact1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:10 am

I may look into the Analogman mod for both my GE7 EQs. Or install prefabbed Mod kits.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby zoooombiex » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:02 am

If all you need is a level boost I'd recommend the Zvex SHO. Extremely well balanced. It might impart a little extra high end clarity, but it's extremely faithful to your existing signal.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby RiverRat » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:44 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Something about this symptom of a drop in level with the OBEL engaged doesn't sound right. When an OBEL is properly executed, there shouldn't be any noticeable drop when engaged like that. The EQ as a compensating boost sounds like a band-aid. Can you describe your entire OBEL setup, pedals, pot values, etc.??


I'm going to propose a solution that goes along with what Brad said... Rather than band aid fixing the signal loss issue by EQ boosting the signal to compensate for the loss, identify the pedals in the chain that are causing the problem and replace their jacks with quality ones and mod their footswitches for true bypass if possible.

The flaw in the discussion is that the signal loss is most likely asymmetrical, meaning the loss isn't happening equally across the audible spectrum. So applying a boost across the whole signal will change the resulting tone in an unexpected way. And the whole goal of the OBEL is to get the FX chain behaving in a consistent, predictable way.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby keirweir » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:35 am

strumminsix wrote:Keir, lets talk boss. 10 hz sliders plus 1 volume, yes?

I say CUT on the 10 hz sliders then, if needed, boost with the volume

An ez has a gain stage for each HZ slider that is used if you boost. So say if you use all 11 you'd introduce 11 add'l gain stages in to your signal chain!!!


Its a BOSS GE-7 - 7 sliders one boost. I just got it in the mail and plan on using it Thursday night.

http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetai ... ductId=144

In the description of the product it should take care of two of my issues... low level from pedal board and feedback from distortion. I plan on just using the boost to raise the volume when I engage effects

I do need to find the time to take my board apart and test everything but being a daddy takes up most of my equipment time. If I have free time to do music stuff you bet your ass I am playing!
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:25 am

Recommendation on who to send my Boss GE-7 to for noise reduction mods? I see Analogman and JHS pedals come up in a search. Thanks.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby oldsmojo » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:38 pm

You guys shouldnt be buying any effect pedals from Boss sorry,..they are crappier than ever these days. At least If you have to have a Boss get a Japanese version from the 80's or early 90's. The Boss EQ is a very coloring pedal compared to others. Even a Danelectro Fish n Chips for 25 bucks off ebay will show dramatic uncoloration difference. Sorry to come off as a tool but really you should A/B pedals before you buy and really, like Brad said..should be using a good clean boost. Again, even w/ those you should try a bunch before you buy. This is the whole point of these threads and the whole fun in buying your own gear for your own sound preferences.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby TI4-1009 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:11 pm

Uh, I've had it for a few years, just want to make what I already have better.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:12 pm

Running thru a Boss EQ pedal adds a lot of "crap" to the signal path. A pure and minimal signal path is important for this glistening clean Garcia tone we seek. When you add a Boss GE7 pedal, you are adding at least 8 stages of crappy capacitors and crappy opamps as well as adding the noise from that many more crappy components. The GE7, or any EQ for that matter, should only be used for serious fixing or correction. It will never enhance or improve. It just clouds the lens many times over, just shits on the signal quality.

If you think about the real Garcia signal path sent to no-effects (OBEL bypassed), you have:

pickups - high quality film capacitors (2), and audiophile grade opamp (1), a pot, and then down the cord to the first vacuum tube in the Fender preamp. There's great beauty in that minimalism. It's like really good quality optics in a nice camera lens. You add a GE-7 or most any effect pedal, then you crap all over that signal path. You go from basically 3 really good devices in the path to triple that many crappy devices and components. And that's just with the one GE-7. It's like taking a sweet old Pentax prime 50mm camera lens and then adding a few layers of cheap hardware store plexiglass to the view. Maybe that's extreme, but when it comes down to really playing this kind of rig loud and with a band, that pure signal path is really key, it's part of the magic.

Now, when the effects loop is engaged, all bets are off. That's a crappier path, but it's for the effects, the Mutron, the phaser, the dirt, the delay, the octaver, etc. In that case it's ok because it's about the effect at that point. But that pure, clean, raw, minimal signal path when Jerry played clean, that's a purity worth preserving as much as possible or practical.

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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby oldsmojo » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:12 am

That was quite the "shitty' post Brad :) .. "Like"
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby TRG » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:35 am

I've been using a GE-7 after my new block version MXR Distortion+ to try and clean up the sound, as the MXR Distortion+ (the new block version) colors the tone too much for my liking. Sounds like I may be doing more harm than good with the GE-7 paired with the Dist+ in an effort to clean up the tone. :-|
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby TI4-1009 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:24 am

oldsmojo, Brad- I agree in principle. For Jerry you don't want to gunk up the signal, and I can hear the junk when I turn on the eq.

Maybe the problem is that I resurected this old thread that was in the Jerry Tone folder? With some guitars and for some (other) playing, I like what the eq does to the sound and the tonal options it provides, I just don't like the hiss from the cheap componants. I've read others say that moding the pedal really improved it and made for a much cleaner playing experience. All I was looking for was advice on the best mods for this pedal- there are at least three versions I've run into.

And as we all know, Jer himself had not one but two of these Boss tonesuckers in his 90's rig (not that I'm a big fan of that period tone). I would bet that he had them modded to sound better?
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:08 am

I'm all for the use of the GE7 eq pedals when in conjunction with an overdrive or distortion pedal. It seems that when Jerry used those two EQ pedals, they shared the fx router patch with the accompanying boss overdrive pedal so that when he kicked on the drive pedal, the EQ came on with it. The bonus there is that the EQ helped refine and tweak the distortion. My only argument is to leave that kind of stuff out of the "clean", non-effects signal path. Use them all day long in the FX chain.

I have run into people who have found that their OBEL loop had some loss when engaged, even if each pedal was bypassed, and they wanted the EQ to compensate for gain and tone loss. While that can work, it points to a problem somewhere. When all is working well, kicking on the OBEL path but with each pedal bypassed, should have a tone very nearly as clean and loud and tonally matched to the "clean" bypassed setting. It won't be 100% as pure, but it should sound real close. If all effects pedals are routed on true bypass loops, then the OBEL path with no effects on should be VERY nearly the same as bypassed. The only real difference under that condition would be the added cable length and numerous jack/switch contact points in the path. A bypassed OBEL is a VERY minimal signal path, basically direct from the guitar to amp.

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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby TRG » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:38 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:I'm all for the use of the GE7 eq pedals when in conjunction with an overdrive or distortion pedal. It seems that when Jerry used those two EQ pedals, they shared the fx router patch with the accompanying boss overdrive pedal so that when he kicked on the drive pedal, the EQ came on with it. The bonus there is that the EQ helped refine and tweak the distortion. My only argument is to leave that kind of stuff out of the "clean", non-effects signal path. Use them all day long in the FX chain.


Ahh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby tigger » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 am

He needed to eq those pedals because they weren't that great; there are dozens of better-sounding overdrives on the market today. Plenty of touring bands use Boss pedals but would Jerry still have any? I doubt it.
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Re: Using an equalizer in the pedal chain to raise signal?

Postby tcsned » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:07 am

tigger wrote:He needed to eq those pedals because they weren't that great; there are dozens of better-sounding overdrives on the market today. Plenty of touring bands use Boss pedals but would Jerry still have any? I doubt it.

Agreed, that probably would have been the biggest change to his rig with the advancements in technology since 1995.
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