Thin and Thick

Thin and Thick

Postby Urblues » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:56 pm

I am having trouble understanding that element of Jerry's rig that gives him that super full sound. I have a strat with active emgs which gets it pretty close (Europe '72) and another strat (double fat) that has two stock humbuckers and a coil tap and gets the tiger sound pretty good. I run them through a TS-808 -> MXR dynacomp (for trey stuff) -> small stone -> memory toy -> Boomerang Mark 1 looper -> original 1965 super reverb with 4 x10" fender special design speakers (original) and had some repairs done and now has about 5 times the clean headroom. I use the typical jerry eq of treb 10 mid 5 and bass 0 and it sounds so dam thin compared to jerry and I can't figure it out.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby waldo041 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Urblues wrote:I am having trouble understanding that element of Jerry's rig that gives him that super full sound. I have a strat with active emgs which gets it pretty close (Europe '72) and another strat (double fat) that has two stock humbuckers and a coil tap and gets the tiger sound pretty good. I run them through a TS-808 -> MXR dynacomp (for trey stuff) -> small stone -> memory toy -> Boomerang Mark 1 looper -> original 1965 super reverb with 4 x10" fender special design speakers (original) and had some repairs done and now has about 5 times the clean headroom. I use the typical jerry eq of treb 10 mid 5 and bass 0 and it sounds so dam thin compared to jerry and I can't figure it out.



i have updated my site to reflect this, but those settings are for when you are using a solid state mcintosh amplifier. for tube combo use, try the treble at around 4 - 7 depending on the room/ mids all the way up/ and the bass just up to 3. this should thicken things up appropriately. when a/b'd hybrid combo vs. all tube combo these settings match fairly well. let us know what you think!

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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby Urblues » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:07 pm

That should help things out
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby mgbills » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:56 am

Wow Waldo!

Did you find some photographic evidence? Guess I'd better check your site. Site Checked. Settings notes changed.

What happened?
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:23 am

I also find this in practice. I attribute some of it to the Mac's fatness and also to the speaker cab's Jerry used. There's a LOT of fullness and body generated there, and that allows this "thin" EQ that Jerry used.

Honing in on this subject; with Fender combo's I find that right around 2.3 to 2.5 on the bass that a fullness appears. 3 may be a tad too bassy on some amps. Also I find that right around 6.5 to 7.5 on the treble seems to get the right top end as well. Not sure if there's photographic info that Jerry once did this with his combo's, but this does seem to work when making a combo closely match the Mac and Jerry-cabinet tone. I'd love to see Jerry's setting when he used a pair of Twins with JGB in the early '70s, Keystone, etc.

Personally, I'd ditch the EMG pickups. I don't think that will help get there. Real strat pickups or the right DiMarzios will definitely help with the resonance and harmonically rich midrange compared to the EMG approach.

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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby playingdead » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Interesting ... when I used the Twin head and the JBLs a few years ago, I kept the bass on 3, mids dimed and treble around 7. Sometimes the random gearhead would look at my settings onstage and tell me I needed to turn the bass off and dime the treble. It did not sound good that way.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby seniorpesca » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:42 pm

I recently turned off the bass on my 76' twin. tweaked mids to 5.5-6 and turned the treble to 10. It can sound kinda thin up close but when i walk away from the amp and play it sounds AMAZING!!!
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby Urblues » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:14 pm

wow thanks I bought the strat with emgs used and they came in it.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby Jon S. » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:23 pm

One of the lessons here is that you can't simply copy anyone else's settings and expect then to "sound just like him." You might as well close your eyes, fiddle with the dials, and when you get as close to "the sound I want to achieve" as your particular gear allows, open your eyes and see what you've got - those are "your"settings. This being said, it sure can be a help to know from where to start!
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby Poor Peter » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:54 pm

Urblues wrote:I am having trouble understanding that element of Jerry's rig that gives him that super full sound. I have a strat with active emgs which gets it pretty close (Europe '72) and another strat (double fat) that has two stock humbuckers and a coil tap and gets the tiger sound pretty good. I run them through a TS-808 -> MXR dynacomp (for trey stuff) -> small stone -> memory toy -> Boomerang Mark 1 looper -> original 1965 super reverb with 4 x10" fender special design speakers (original) and had some repairs done and now has about 5 times the clean headroom. I use the typical jerry eq of treb 10 mid 5 and bass 0 and it sounds so dam thin compared to jerry and I can't figure it out.


I would love to know what "repairs" you did to the 65 reverb to generate more headroom. I also use a 65 SR (re- issue... sorry) and struggle with it breaking up too soon depending on how loud I need to be for a particular venue. PLEASE elaborate.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby abraxa28 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:02 am

I am also having the "thin" problem. I am using a reissue Deluxe Reverb w/ a JBL K120, and I only have control of the Treble and Bass. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some settings that may thicken up my sound.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby mijknahs » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:19 am

Whenever I switch back to just the Fender Twin combo (not using a McIntosh), I find that I have to turn the treble down to about 7 (instead of 10).

Also if you were jusing JBLs, the EQ would be different.

I used to have an old Deluxe with a JBL and I always thought it had a "thin" sound no matter what I did (even when using it just as a preamp). My Twin always sounded "thicker". I have no explanation.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby Urblues » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:29 am

I took mine to DJL vintage audio. The caps need to be replaced and the transformer had a problem and was breaking up to early so he put in a mercury transformer which called for more powerful tubes 6L6 WGB's which I had laying around and they work. My amp on 2 now sounds like it is on 5 and it is as clean as it gets.
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby JonnyBoy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:36 pm

mijknahs wrote:I used to have an old Deluxe with a JBL and I always thought it had a "thin" sound no matter what I did (even when using it just as a preamp). My Twin always sounded "thicker". I have no explanation.



Since getting my deluxe HRD3, which probably has a bunch more going on with it circuit wise than a vintage amp (for better or worse), I have noticed the settings to get a full sound is not what Jerry's twin preamp settings are too. I am glad to have read this and that my ears seem to be working OK still. Since putting a K120 in it, the headroom has multiplied, as well as its tone. That may help others get much more clean headroom out of low wattage combos or the SRRI that was discussed earlier. try some E110's or other 10" speakers that have a higher wattage and sensitivity...
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Re: Thin and Thick

Postby JustinJohn » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:20 pm

I run my 1971 twin at

T: 8
M: 5.5
B: 1-ish
Rv: 4
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