Help with rig set up

Help with rig set up

Postby Winterland » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:28 pm

moving from pedal board to rack system. I have a few qsc power amps (RMX 1450,1850,2450)and a ART Pro channel pre amp. I have a few JBL E 120's lying around and have a 2x12 birch cabinet to put them in. I need some direction on how to use what I have and what I need to get to complete a nice sounding rig.
Do I need to get an EQ? Do I need a reverb/delay unit? I would greatly appricate any advice.
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby gpilcher2001 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:13 am

I'd start with getting a guitar preamp like the sms or any guitar based preamp depending on the tone your going for. Isn't the art pro a mic preamp?
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby czyfingers » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:26 am

The preamp you describe has an eq, so you wouldn't need that. But from what I can tell, it's designed to be a mic pre. So I don't know how it would do with a guitar. Also, you would need an external reverb pedal, since it does not have reverb. Electroharmonix holy grail seems to be the affordable pedal of choice used by most who don't have onboard reverb.
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby Winterland » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:51 am

It is a mic pre amp. The guys at the music store set it up and pulled specs that read it can take guitar,bass and/or vocal.
I figured I would bring down my cabinet and see what happens. I have been using pedal boards for years and can't get the exactly perfect sound...I need a pre amp correct? I have two twins and at one gig hooked that cabinet in to one twin and it sounded really close..Really close. The only issue was lugging the twin,the cabinet and the effects...I wanted to lighten the load. I also would like to capture the sound at a lower volume. I am totally confused her I feel like I am chasing my tail in circles(fun circles though!) Do I pull the plug and get the SMS and would one of the QSC's help me get there?
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:06 am

With these setups for getting Garcia guitar tones, when we refer to "preamp" we're talking about something based on a '60s Fender type circuit. We use a preamp like this for two things; for gain and for EQ. The gain is to take our tiny guitar level signal and boost it up to a level hot enough to send to a power amp. The Fender style EQ is what we need to get the Garcia "tone" with the extreme bass cut and extreme treble boost. The fact that it's all-tube is what makes it sound sweet and musical. There are a few options out there that get you in the ballpark: GT Trio, Mesa Studio Pre, SMS, Frenzel...

I just wanted to help clarify so that you weren't confused by the ART "preamp". That kind of preamp won't be of any use in this scenario. It's not really a "tube" preamp although it does use a starved voltage tube as a small part of its circuit. It's kind of a cheesy and cheap solid-state (transistor) device that uses deceptive marketing to make it seem like it's a real "tube" preamp. And mostly because it lacks the critical EQ shaping required to get the right guitar tone.

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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby Winterland » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:23 am

Thanks BradI really appricate it. So do you feel the Pre amp is the most crucial pice of the puzzle to get the jerry tone?
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:09 am

The right preamp is vital, but so are a few other things. If I were to rank things to some degree, I'd say that the JBL 12" speaker is THE single most vital Jerry-tone component there is. It's THE constant that was always with Jerry from the very beginning until '93, JBL's were THE device that delivered that tone into soundwaves. It's a distinctly Jerry thing. It's just not a Jerry tone without JBL's. (Or perhaps a JBL clone type speaker)

A tube preamp is vital too. It's the only way to squeeze all that treble and clean-tone without sounding brutally harsh. Tubes are the magic sweetener. Reverb is vital. An on-board guitar buffer is important. The right sounding pickups for the tone-era you're after also pretty important. The fat Adamas graphite pick is also important for tones after the '70s. For earlier tones a fat, extra-heavy pick is important.

B
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby JustinJohn » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:55 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:The right preamp is vital, but so are a few other things. If I were to rank things to some degree, I'd say that the JBL 12" speaker is THE single most vital Jerry-tone component there is. It's THE constant that was always with Jerry from the very beginning until '93, JBL's were THE device that delivered that tone into soundwaves. It's a distinctly Jerry thing. It's just not a Jerry tone without JBL's. (Or perhaps a JBL clone type speaker)

A tube preamp is vital too. It's the only way to squeeze all that treble and clean-tone without sounding brutally harsh. Tubes are the magic sweetener. Reverb is vital. An on-board guitar buffer is important. The right sounding pickups for the tone-era you're after also pretty important. The fat Adamas graphite pick is also important for tones after the '70s. For earlier tones a fat, extra-heavy pick is important.

B


10/10!

...I would also add that 'right hand technique' is paramount as well.
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby joethepainter » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:35 am

JustinJohn wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:The right preamp is vital, but so are a few other things. If I were to rank things to some degree, I'd say that the JBL 12" speaker is THE single most vital Jerry-tone component there is. It's THE constant that was always with Jerry from the very beginning until '93, JBL's were THE device that delivered that tone into soundwaves. It's a distinctly Jerry thing. It's just not a Jerry tone without JBL's. (Or perhaps a JBL clone type speaker)

A tube preamp is vital too. It's the only way to squeeze all that treble and clean-tone without sounding brutally harsh. Tubes are the magic sweetener. Reverb is vital. An on-board guitar buffer is important. The right sounding pickups for the tone-era you're after also pretty important. The fat Adamas graphite pick is also important for tones after the '70s. For earlier tones a fat, extra-heavy pick is important.

B


10/10!

...I would also add that 'right hand technique' is paramount as well.


...and don't forget 'left hand technique'!...I was just re-reading Jer's '78 GP Interview, where he talks about his different vibratos, 'high knuckles', etc...but, yes you're both right on, and of course, :hail: that surgical right hand approach is key.... :hail:
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby rg7120 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Winterland wrote:I have two twins and at one gig hooked that cabinet in to one twin and it sounded really close..Really close. The only issue was lugging the twin,the cabinet and the effects...I wanted to lighten the load. I also would like to capture the sound at a lower volume.

Make or buy a head cab for one of the Twins. That's what Jerry did with his. You're not going to get his tone from a mic preamp, a Twin will get you closest to the sound if you have the right guitars.
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Re: Help with rig set up

Postby mijknahs » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:02 pm

If you already have a Twin Reverb, you're already there. Why spend more money? You could simply use a Twin connected with the JBLs in your external birch cab. Take out the speakers out from the Twin and it will lighten the load a bit. The external cab will sound way better than having the JBLs in the Twin combo.
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