Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

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Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Mosfed » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:39 pm

Hey there

So I am looking to buy a Fender amp, preferably blackface or silverface. Naturally the ideal is a Fender Twin. Especially with the various Garcia mods and the pair of JBL D-120/ I have .

My issue is that a Twin is just too loud. So yes I know you can drop two of the main output tubes to lower the wattage but I have heard that they are still loud as all hell.

So the dilemma becomes what will get me closer to that Garcia Sound:

- a Twin minus 2 tubes with A really quality attenuator like a Thd hot plate
Or
- a pro or deluxe reverb

Does anyone have experience with the same issue? What did you do? Experience with attenuators?

THANKS
--
"And I'm here by the road, tied to the load, that I picked up in ten thousand cafes and bars" - Barlow
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby NSP » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:01 pm

I had a THD hotplate a long time ago that I used with a Mesa DC-5. I found it to be a tone sucker....in my case it wasn't the answer. I think you'd be better off with a Deluxe or Pro. my 0.02.
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby dleonard » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm

yeah...way better off with the Deluxe then going the attenuator route. I sold my Twin bc its too loud. I was thinking of maybe even getting a Blues junior, but fear that may be too quiet with a drummer
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby waldo041 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:05 pm

keep the twin, and put a master volume on it. a 250k audio pot inbetween the phase inverter, and 220k mix nodes should work just fine.

putting in a preamp tap and going with a mac solid state power amp is by far the better option with way more volume control.

~waldo
"Tone is in the instruments. Technique in the hands. Do what you will." ~ quote from some guy at the TGP forum
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby alcorelectric » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Hey Mike,
Glad to see you back
I hope the move went well
T
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Mosfed » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:36 am

dleonard wrote:yeah...way better off with the Deluxe then going the attenuator route. I sold my Twin bc its too loud. I was thinking of maybe even getting a Blues junior, but fear that may be too quiet with a drummer


I've got a Blues Deluxe now that is a fantastic amp. I want to get a little closer to the Garcia sound hense the issue - but it is a great amp. Plenty loud for a drummer. I had a Blues Junior and it wasn't enough. Not far off but it just couldn't go to 11...
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Mosfed » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:38 am

waldo041 wrote:keep the twin, and put a master volume on it. a 250k audio pot inbetween the phase inverter, and 220k mix nodes should work just fine.

putting in a preamp tap and going with a mac solid state power amp is by far the better option with way more volume control.

~waldo


Thanks mate. Trying to go one step at a time... But I am clear that an MC-50 or similar is in my future...
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"And I'm here by the road, tied to the load, that I picked up in ten thousand cafes and bars" - Barlow
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby gpilcher2001 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:06 am

I have used a hot plate with good results. The bright and deep switches are very important once you go belw 8db's of attenuation. It did sound its best on the 4 and 8 db settings. All you achieve with the pulling tubes is a 3 db drop in volume anyways. 1/2 ing the power on a tube amp only gets you that. There are other brands of attenuaters out there that are a little more flexible than the hot plate. Weber has a whole slew of them. Dr. Z has one that goes in, i think 2 db icrements, thats really transparent. My problem with the hot plate was not enough fine tuning. It was either to loud or not to loud no middle ground. Sonically it was great. If you could find a super reverb head, which i think is a band master, I'm sure someone here can correct me, that would put you in an ab763 fender circuit at 40 or 50 watts that can be modded for jerry. Thats plenty of power and headroom for just about any gig your likley to play. Greg...
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Mosfed » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:14 pm

gpilcher2001 wrote:I have used a hot plate with good results. The bright and deep switches are very important once you go belw 8db's of attenuation. It did sound its best on the 4 and 8 db settings. All you achieve with the pulling tubes is a 3 db drop in volume anyways. 1/2 ing the power on a tube amp only gets you that. There are other brands of attenuaters out there that are a little more flexible than the hot plate. Weber has a whole slew of them. Dr. Z has one that goes in, i think 2 db icrements, thats really transparent. My problem with the hot plate was not enough fine tuning. It was either to loud or not to loud no middle ground. Sonically it was great. If you could find a super reverb head, which i think is a band master, I'm sure someone here can correct me, that would put you in an ab763 fender circuit at 40 or 50 watts that can be modded for jerry. Thats plenty of power and headroom for just about any gig your likley to play. Greg...


Lots of great info! Figuring out which head (if the Bandmaster is the call then so be it) really is the Holy grail of my question. Because if I could spend my money in two parts rather than three - so now purchase the cab and the head and then add an amp in the future - that would be literally perfect. Is the Bandmaster the head I am seeking? Twin like pre amp circuit that can be modded with 40 or so watts of juice?

Thanks mate!
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Smolder » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:30 pm

2 power tubes, one 12" speaker, MV as low as 7, and one or two 3db clicks on an attenuator.
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby tigger » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:32 pm

No mid control on a Bandmaster, if you consider that a dealbreaker.
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Mosfed » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:37 pm

Ok - so I just saw that my JBL D-120 s are 8 ohm speakers and heads like the Fender Bandmaster are 4ohm heads. Am I shit out of luck or is there a work around?
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby Smolder » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:52 pm

Mosfed wrote:Ok - so I just saw that my JBL D-120 s are 8 ohm speakers and heads like the Fender Bandmaster are 4ohm heads. Am I shit out of luck or is there a work around?


your bandmaster can handle that mismatch just fine.

The impedance output of a transformer is not a constant. It is essential an aggregate number. Speakers are paired on that number so they can accommodate a range. Leo put a four ohm load in a bandmaster to match up with two eight ohm speakers wired in parallel in a 4 ohm bandmaster cabinet. But... he also put to jacks in parallel knowing that you might want to have two bandmaster cabs. Not all amps are built with the same sturdiness... but it's general considered safe to double, or half the load on a fender amp.
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:54 pm

Smolder wrote:
Mosfed wrote:Ok - so I just saw that my JBL D-120 s are 8 ohm speakers and heads like the Fender Bandmaster are 4ohm heads. Am I shit out of luck or is there a work around?


your bandmaster can handle that mismatch just fine.

The impedance output of a transformer is not a constant. It is essential an aggregate number. Speakers are paired on that number so they can accommodate a range. Leo put a four ohm load in a bandmaster to match up with two eight ohm speakers wired in parallel in a 4 ohm bandmaster cabinet. But... he also put to jacks in parallel knowing that you might want to have two bandmaster cabs. Not all amps are built with the same sturdiness... but it's general considered safe to double, or half the load on a fender amp.


IOW there is no mismatch at all with driving the two 8ohm D-120's (in parallel, a 4ohm load) with the Bandmaster, which ideally sees a 4ohm load.
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Re: Twin reverb with an attenuator - Garcia

Postby gpilcher2001 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:08 am

The best way imop to get a 40 watt version of a twin is to go to webers site and purchase the 6a40 kit in the head version and get someone to build it for you. You could then have all the mods included in the build. Then you have an amp that is versitile enough to be used as an amp or preamp shojld you choose to go the route of the mac later on. Of course that would depend on how much coin you have. But you should be able to get it done for th same amount of money as buying a vintage amp. Greg...
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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