Silverface Pro Reverb VS Twin...

[hippieguy1954]

You never replied to my last pm. You left me hangin. I never heard from you again, until now....6 months later in a thread. Proof is in the puddin!
Good luck!

[oldsmojo]

Sorry If I left you hangin on a PM...I dont even know when I have a new PM and just found out there was a few sitting there. Its probably the worst way to communicate for me since Im not on the computer in general much and rukind. My email is better and phone is best way to do business by far...way more fun and concise! Either way I remember I had given you a price then I saw you post about it being way too much and you sent me a pm asking for a stripped down price. a second quote. I would have given you that had you not gone behind my back talking about high price. Im NOT interested in doing my work for people who just hem and haw about price. I get paid for a lot of time spent on these and thats the bottom line. You want a cheaper price then thats fine. I can do an amp when I have free time and use cheaper caps and parts without certain features. I would do that but why?? So I can have an amp out there thats not as cool as the others and is stripped of features? Its just not cool for me and I hope you see why. Especially since your prior post about snagging my work ideas from photos so you can just do these yourselves. Nothing is stopping anyone from simply blackfacing 135 watt twins. I have my own vintage parts collection I use and certain way of doing things and thats it. I make a new faceplate that says Shakedown Amps in old school Fender script ..Make a wood Head cabinet and put the name on the back. I've only made a handful and the lucky owners are very happy so far. Been fun. Take care

[hippieguy1954]

I never asked for cheap parts. That would defeat the purpose. I just asked if you could just do the one channel instead of both. Geeeeeeez!
I never said anything about taking pictures of your work. I said maybe you would post diagrams. If ya do ya do if ya don't ya dont!
It's no big deal, for me. I ended up with a SMS and a nice power amp. So, it all worked out just fine.
I'm sure your work is good. I've said that it seemes like you know what you're doing. I certainly thought you did good work or I never would have contacted you to start with.
I wish you all the best and hope you continued success in all your endevours.

BTW, I still have the Twin for sale, if you're interested.

[playingdead]

My last words in this forum: Go suck an egg, strumminsix.

Guess not, huh.

[hippieguy1954]

Only because he was talking about me.
But sense you have nothing better to do then call me out about it, I'll ask you, have you ever said something and then changed your mind, playingdead?
It is a yes or no question.

[TI4-1009]

since

[hippieguy1954]

Yes.Thanks!

[eric]

My last words in this forum: Go suck an egg, strumminsix.

Guess not, huh.

I was thinking the same thing ...

Looks like someone's off thier meds again. Everyone run for cover!!!

[The Stag]

I bought an amp from Shakedown amps and i love it. I txt him questions and he answers in minutes. I find him to be very dependable and I highly recomend his work. He stands behind his work and is a great guy.

[Tony6Strings]

Since this thread was refreshed, I'll give an update... I've been gigging that Twin since March. I love it, it's a great amp. I also love the Pro, which is why I bought it back from the guy I traded with. They don't make em like they used to, and it always pays to have a backup. I had a few problems with the Twin, they basically amounted to a faulty screen resistor and some bad tubes. I swapped all the screen resistors and gave it a thorough cleaning out with canned air, contact cleaner, a soft bristle brush and some q tips. A new quad of 6L6's later, and It was like having a brand new amp! Seriously, love this thing. Been keeping my eye out for another D120, but I refuse to pay three hundred clams for a fucking speaker. I'll find one for the right price, It'll come around. In fact, I'm almost dreading it, this thing is so freakin frackin heavy with just the one D120 and a stock Utah... That other JBL can take it's sweet time finding its way to me as far as I'm concerned.

Hope you all have a very kind and grateful day!!!

[claytushaywood]

I thought I'd post my experiences on the pro reverb vs twin reverb thing here. My experience lies with my early silverface (non master volume non ultra linear) pro reverb and several early silverface twins and twin reverb reissues.

I've found out quite a bit about my pro... First pro's have smaller power and output transformers than their similarly equipped Super and Bassman counterparts. This means less headroom, more sag and easier to get gain. The silverface pro and BF pro have exactly the same model number on their power tx's... they however, ARE in fact different power tx's... the blackface pro reverb calls for a GZ34 rectifeir tube, while my silverface pro reverb calls for a 5u4g rectifier tube. I didnt realize this for the longest time (dumb) and I had always had a GZ34 rectifier tube in there, shoot the amp even came with a gz34 when i bought it. The difference between a gz34 and a 5u4 is the voltage drop- the 5u4 will drop the plate voltage (and overall amp voltages) a good 40v below the gz34 and a gz34 is something like 10-20v below a solid state rectifier. this voltage drop is referred to as "sag" in terms of sound. a 5u4 has much more "sag" than a gz34... a SS has less sag than a gz34 but not that much- a lot of people wouldnt hear the difference. I tend to notice sag quite a bit though. My amp always sounded really bad cranked up and distorting but great clean... i started learning stuff about the amp and amps in general and I found that my plate voltage was running at 500v... the schematic shows my amp is supposed to be running at 437v on the plates!! Now most people will tell you that's fine... as long as your filter caps are big enough and new enough a vintage fender and mdoern 6l6gc's can handle 490v+- and yes I ran it for years like that. Totally fine... I even had the SS rectifier in it and got it up to 500v.

After learning some more on the topic- i decided I should buy myself a 5u4 rectifier. I did and installed it, and all my amp voltages went down to where they are supposed to be... and after rebiasing... BAM! the amp sounds AMAZING cranked up... but I'm getting much less headroom and more sag... it sounds sweet though... my edge of clean and breakup is at 5 on the dial (have other jerry preamp mods too- I actually replaced EVERY component but like 5 resistors with PRP metal films and mallory and orange drops- the amp is quiet as a fuckin mouse- seriously) The amp sounds better now... People will tell you that higher plate voltages arent a big deal as long as your biased correctly- but i beg to differ... i strongly disagree. I used to think of the pro as a smaller wattage twin and wondered why they felt and sounded so different. The tranformers are the main reason here.

The point to this post is this... I feel like a LOT of people out there want a twin that has less power and can reach that sweet spot sooner or they want a low cost fender- and pro reverb's are COMPLETELY underrated on the used market- they are the absolute best deal you can get on a fender with reverb and vibrato- plus they have 2x12's. I've realized the key to this is to get a pro reverb and replace the power and output transformers with some similar to those found in the super reverb or bassman. Apparently they make drop in fitting ones... this will give you the increased headroom and punch of one of those amps but with 2x12's and reverb. this will also allow you to install a gz34 rectifier as those transformers are made for gz34's (super) or SS (bassman)- gz34's are swappable with SS rectifier plug ins... many people claim that the 5u4 is direct swappable with an SS as long as you rebias a little bit... but i strongly disagree. an amp made for that kind of voltage should be run at that voltage. it will make a world of difference when pushing the amp.

A pro reverb with bigger transformers and an SS rectifier is JUST like a lower powered twin... big (for the power tubes) trannys, SS rectifier, 12" speakers, same preamp, everything. the advantage is that you're running 2x6l6's and you can get em running hotter without blowing the roof off... It's amazing how much better fenders sound at around 5-6 than at 3-4.

adding a "mids' control is easy on the pro too. I've also enjoyed another mod that can be done to any fender... the tremolo disconnect mod. I bought a 50kC pot with an SPST switch that allows me to switch the tremolo completely out of the circuit (differnt than switching it "off" with footswitch or unplugging footswitch) this adds a GOOD deal of gain to the amp's power tube section. and really helps get that early jerry power tube crunch sound.

Another cheaper way to get the jerry sound out of a pro reverb is to just use it stock (which I'm digging, the sag gives it a little more forgiveness for the modest player)... but you could also drop the voltage on the amp enough to use an SS rectifier by getting a zener diode voltage drop installed. This is just a way to absorb the voltage that the 5u4 rectifier tube would have taken out without the sag.

and keep in mind a blackface pro reverb can just take an SS rectifier.

I am definitely NOT under the impression that most of Jerry's tone was completely uber clean. if you've been playing long you can hear the grit on his tone. 73 and other specific periods were indeed super clean. but the best garcia had some grit. not marhsall grit, or even overdrive pedal grit, but just a little bit of speaker, preamp and power amp combined. Getting the right amount in each spot is key. I think his preamp was mostly clean yes. but there is some definite power amp grit there, especially when he was using any sort of tube power amp. my favorite years.

[myoung6923]

I'll be the first one in this thread to vouch for Joe's work. I have one of his Twins and he's more than gone out of his way to service it and ensure that I have been completely happy with it. On top of that, he's a straight up good guy and a damn good guitarist.

Joe is definitely one of the good guys!

[claytushaywood]

I'll be the first one in this thread to vouch for Joe's work. I have one of his Twins and he's more than gone out of his way to service it and ensure that I have been completely happy with it. On top of that, he's a straight up good guy and a damn good guitarist.

Joe is definitely one of the good guys!

I wish he would share what he's done with it... I'm loving my pro reverb but it definitely doesnt have enough headroom for me unless I decide to upgrade the power and output transfromer to bigger sized super ones. Joe keeps his experiments secret... which i really dont find to be in the vein of the grateful dead way... of course there's tons of consumerism and sales on this forum. I was going to try to send my amp to him, i really, really wanted to. but he didnt answer emails, wouldnt give me a price, just told me to send it, and when i asked a couple more questions he never answered.

it'd be nice to figure out how to make those ultralinear twins into great jerry amps. I guess it's something similar to the mods listed on waldo's site. As long as the preamp is similar it would sound similar- because those ultra linear twins have super high headroom in the power section- like jerry's SS power amps.

Those ultralinears would be a great jerry amp for those of us that cant afford a blackface twin and cut it down to a head and buy a mcintosh power amp. Real spring reverb with a super clean tube power amp (which I love having tube power amps- favorite jerry tone there- so much fatter)

To keep these circuit mods a secret and not be able to fulfill desires is just silly in my opinion. It's obviously not a huge breakthrough- jerry used a very near stock twin reverb preamp circuit with a clean power amp. I guess i'll just have to spend my own hours experimenting and offer it myself or something

[claytushaywood]

I'll be the first one in this thread to vouch for Joe's work. I have one of his Twins and he's more than gone out of his way to service it and ensure that I have been completely happy with it. On top of that, he's a straight up good guy and a damn good guitarist.

Joe is definitely one of the good guys!

I wish he would share what he's done with it... I'm loving my pro reverb but it definitely doesnt have enough headroom for me unless I decide to upgrade the power and output transfromer to bigger sized super ones. Joe keeps his experiments secret... which i really dont find to be in the vein of the grateful dead way... of course there's tons of consumerism and sales on this forum. I was going to try to send my amp to him, i really, really wanted to. but he didnt answer emails, wouldnt give me a price, just told me to send it, and when i asked a couple more questions he never answered.

it'd be nice to figure out how to make those ultralinear twins into great jerry amps. I guess it's something similar to the mods listed on waldo's site. As long as the preamp is similar it would sound similar- because those ultra linear twins have super high headroom in the power section- like jerry's SS power amps.

Those ultralinears would be a great jerry amp for those of us that cant afford a blackface twin and cut it down to a head and buy a mcintosh power amp. Real spring reverb with a super clean tube power amp (which I love having tube power amps- favorite jerry tone there- so much fatter)

To keep these circuit mods a secret and not be able to fulfill desires is just silly in my opinion. It's obviously not a huge breakthrough- jerry used a very near stock twin reverb preamp circuit with a clean power amp. I guess i'll just have to spend my own hours experimenting and offer it myself or something

[cmc64]

Since this looks to be the Fender Pro Reverb all encompassing thread - Here we go....

I just came upon two different Pro Reverbs for sale and I was hoping for some input from you good people as I am tossing about the idea of picking one up.

Amp #1: Not sure of the year but it is a 50 Watt Blackface with a single 15" Jenson speaker in it. If all goes according to plan I will be picking up a pair of JBL E-120's on Sunday and I was wondering how difficult it would be two put the two JBL's into this amp. The amp itself is very clean and the seller is asking $550.

Amp #2: 1970's Silverface. The amp itself is in good shape - not 100% but good enough. I wasn't able to identify the speakers in it (and the seller didn't know what they were but said they were the original) - there are 2 12's in it that have the big square magnets with no real markings of any kind (there was a small string of number printed on the edge of the speakers which I should have written down but can get tomorrow). They sound decent but again I should be getting the JBl's so they can be placed in there. I am not sure if this one is the ultralinear version. This one has a few issues - the footswitch is shot and the vibrato does not work. From what I understand the input works but the vibrato effect does not work which does not matter to me but not knowing that much about amps except for how they sound I don't know if this could cause other issues that may require some repair work on my part. Right now the amp is overpriced but I was haggling with the seller today and I could probably get it for $400 and maybe less.

Thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for any input.

Eventually the JBL's will find their way into a 2x12 cab and I will get a pre and power amp but that is going to take me some time to save up for (probably a year, and yes I know, patience, patience....) but the Superchamp amp I have at the moment is just not doing it for me. It's a very decent amp but the tone is just not there and it's making me nutty.

Again, thanks for any input.