External Buffer?

Re: External Buffer?

Postby JustinJohn » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:15 am

Pete B. wrote:'Not sure if he still makes them, but i have a Waldo buffer in a foot pedal that I like alot.
I recently got a guitar with a Waldo buffer also.
I must say I am not a fan of having to deal with batteries in the guitar.
The pedal buffer uses a common Boss power supply, and can be used with any instrument.


Pete, do you have the pedal-buffer first or last in the chain?

=)
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:56 pm

First...
I run a 9-foot cord from guitar to buffer pedal (guitar volume knob is wide open).
Mutron and Octave are in the buffer pedal send/return loop (there is a button on the pedal to activate/bypass the loop).
Out of the buffer pedal to a 25K Volume pedal.
Then to the amp.
I can run this setup with any instrument I own, and no batteries are needed. :hail:

When I run this setup with Pedal Steel, the cord is about 3 feet from pickup leads to buffer.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby claytushaywood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:16 pm

Pete B. wrote:First...
I run a 9-foot cord from guitar to buffer pedal (guitar volume knob is wide open).
Mutron and Octave are in the buffer pedal send/return loop (there is a button on the pedal to activate/bypass the loop).
Out of the buffer pedal to a 25K Volume pedal.
Then to the amp.
I can run this setup with any instrument I own, and no batteries are needed. :hail:

When I run this setup with Pedal Steel, the cord is about 3 feet from pickup leads to buffer.


I play in a soundscape band and use volume swells a lot, been wanting to get a goodrich volume pedal. i was actually contemplating this setup months ago, but lost track of it. Can you still get good swells with the 25k volume pot? or is it more for setting a volume?

Also, do you have a wiring diagram for the send and return? Wouldnt it be the same thing if you just wired the buffer in a box and wired it in series like this?

Or do you have a volume knob for the return level or send level or something?
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:31 pm

The pedal does have a volume knob on it for the effects loop, but i pretty much leave it wide open.
'Not sure about the series thing... You'de have to get any schematics from Waldo, as he made this pedal.
I don't know if Goodrich offers a 25K volume pedal, but Ernie Ball does.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby hippieguy1954 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:39 pm

This other thread might be helpful to youz guyz, also! viewtopic.php?f=419&t=11758 :smile: :smile: :smile:
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby JustinJohn » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Pete B. wrote:First...
I run a 9-foot cord from guitar to buffer pedal (guitar volume knob is wide open).
Mutron and Octave are in the buffer pedal send/return loop (there is a button on the pedal to activate/bypass the loop).
Out of the buffer pedal to a 25K Volume pedal.
Then to the amp.
I can run this setup with any instrument I own, and no batteries are needed. :hail:

When I run this setup with Pedal Steel, the cord is about 3 feet from pickup leads to buffer.


Super-cool!! I need to get one from Waldo, just need to save the dough!
=)
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:36 pm

I also think there is something special going on with the fact that the Mutron III is almost directly connected to the Buffer...
I run about 6 inches of George-L cord betwen the Buffer and the Mutron III.
It sounds great.
Has anyone else tried this?
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby claytushaywood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:25 pm

if you're leaving the volume wide open, there is no difference between using the effects loop and not.. "in series" just means... you can run your guitar into your buffer box then to your mutron to octave then into your volume pedal. The only disadvantage to this is that your pickups are experiencing cable capacitance as they make their way to your buffer, if you're using a high quality cable and high output pickups, most people wont be able to hear the difference.

I think the main reason for having the onboard buffer is to have your volume control on your guitar. With Pete B's setup you would have to use the footpedal to control your volume in the mix-- well you dont have to, but in order for your efffects to receive full volume all the time the volume pedal is nescessary.

Actually Pete, your effects loop and volume pot on the buffer box is definitely redundant- youd be better off building a buffer into a very small box with a clip for hanging on your strap. this way you would have a very short cable run from your pickups to your buffer. if you dont mind using a volume pedal for volume, this setup will work fine, though I believe.

Brad of sarno actually helped me design a super cool buffer system involving a sarno black box as the first active device- so you have a tube based buffer (which is getting crazy good reviews) you go from guitar mono out from your pickups sswitches and tone controls wired as normal but without the volume control wired yet then> into the black box> into your volume fx pedals > then back up into your guitar (using one side of a stereo cable- the stereo plug goes into your guitar) then into your volume pot (25K as your signal is low impedance after the black box) out of your volume pot and down the other side of the stereo cable to your amp... but here was my contribution... out of your guitar's volume pot to a 25k goodrich volume pedal which has a solid built in buffer (and if youre used to ernie ball's- it will blow your mind how good those things are) the goodrich also has dual outputs and is very suitable for driving two amps. or the goodrich could come after effects that you want to be effected by your master volume and could drive long stage cables to amps that might be far away.
You can always substitute the black box for any buffer or preamp... like waldo's in a box, or a belt box.

And there you have some great ways to have your buffer outboard- one of which still allows an onboard guitar volume control, but also requires modification of your guitar. Man I wish I could afford a black box and a goodrich volume pedal. I'm finally going to pick up some K120's though!!!
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby claytushaywood » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:34 pm

I''m actully gona get on with building a tiger on perfboard and put it into a box. I am not absolutely positive about the cable between the pickups and the buffer having an effect on sound as I have not personally tried it. And as we know, a lot of things with guitar electronics that have sound electronic theory, do not have good sound. (not that this estimate has anything to do with either) But I do like the idea of being able to use buffers with any guitar. I think the belt clip with some top notch cables is ideal. I'm even thinking I'll build it without an input jack on the buffer. like the cable coming from the guitar just goes into the box without having to make another connection with a plug and 1/4" input jack.

Really Jerry's setup is ideal, but the least flexible for those of us that like to play with many guitars. Doing stuff like this would also make it easy to switch from 80's jerry to 72 jerry and whatnot. Have your stratoblaster already clipped to your strat's strap!

...or just put a blaster in your strat and a tiger in your tiger :D :?
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby hawk900 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:23 am

I had a thought of an idea of a power adapter line braided intwine with my guitar cables and sneaking it in there. Just becareful with messing with adapter especially ma's and pos and gnd connections . I'm sure Waldo can tell u what the voltage minimum is for your 9v before changing and exact milamps too.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:30 am

claytushaywood wrote:if you're leaving the volume wide open, there is no difference between using the effects loop and not.. "in series" just means... you can run your guitar into your buffer box then to your mutron to octave then into your volume pedal. The only disadvantage to this is that your pickups are experiencing cable capacitance as they make their way to your buffer, if you're using a high quality cable and high output pickups, most people wont be able to hear the difference.

I think the main reason for having the onboard buffer is to have your volume control on your guitar. With Pete B's setup you would have to use the footpedal to control your volume in the mix-- well you dont have to, but in order for your efffects to receive full volume all the time the volume pedal is nescessary.

Actually Pete, your effects loop and volume pot on the buffer box is definitely redundant- youd be better off building a buffer into a very small box with a clip for hanging on your strap. this way you would have a very short cable run from your pickups to your buffer. if you dont mind using a volume pedal for volume, this setup will work fine, though I believe.

Brad of sarno actually helped me design a super cool buffer system involving a sarno black box as the first active device- so you have a tube based buffer (which is getting crazy good reviews) you go from guitar mono out from your pickups sswitches and tone controls wired as normal but without the volume control wired yet then> into the black box> into your volume fx pedals > then back up into your guitar (using one side of a stereo cable- the stereo plug goes into your guitar) then into your volume pot (25K as your signal is low impedance after the black box) out of your volume pot and down the other side of the stereo cable to your amp... but here was my contribution... out of your guitar's volume pot to a 25k goodrich volume pedal which has a solid built in buffer (and if youre used to ernie ball's- it will blow your mind how good those things are) the goodrich also has dual outputs and is very suitable for driving two amps. or the goodrich could come after effects that you want to be effected by your master volume and could drive long stage cables to amps that might be far away.
You can always substitute the black box for any buffer or preamp... like waldo's in a box, or a belt box.

And there you have some great ways to have your buffer outboard- one of which still allows an onboard guitar volume control, but also requires modification of your guitar. Man I wish I could afford a black box and a goodrich volume pedal. I'm finally going to pick up some K120's though!!!


I'm pretty sure I've got a handle on it, Bro.
I've got all that stuff and have done a ton of testing.
:wink:
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby NSP » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:33 am

hawk900 wrote:I'm sure Waldo can tell u what the voltage minimum is for your 9v before changing and exact milamps too.


That's exactly what I was just wondering reading through this thread.

Hey Mike, as the 9v drains, at what voltage point will the buffer begin to suffer?

Thanks
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:54 am

NSP wrote:
hawk900 wrote:I'm sure Waldo can tell u what the voltage minimum is for your 9v before changing and exact milamps too.


That's exactly what I was just wondering reading through this thread.

Hey Mike, as the 9v drains, at what voltage point will the buffer begin to suffer?

Thanks


In my own exp., right around 6vdc, don't usually check mA.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby redeyedjim » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:34 pm

Is 25k the standard value of the pot that's used when running a volume pedal within a buffered loop? I have one of waldo's UGBs and an OBEL, and I plan on adding a volume pedal to the beginning of my buffered pedal chain, so I can roll back the volume for some distortion effects; I know this was discussed recently, though I can't find the thread at the moment. Thanks - I want to make sure I use the correct value for this.
Last edited by redeyedjim on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Buffer?

Postby Pete B. » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:51 pm

fwiw, With a buffer pedal, there are no batteries anywhere in the system.
:cool:
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