The D Irwin Guitar

[gdrfk1990]

This is great. The price is still expensive at $3000 but the parts alone are about $800 and that was with cutting corners etc. I think you would be hard pressed to make one of these with super 2's, a decent bridge, and tuners, and sell it for a grand without losing money nevermind adding a buffer.. Moriarties guitars go for like $6k bare bones and I would buy a PRS over one of those anyday

[gr8fullfred]

Moriarties guitars go for like $6k bare bones and I would buy a PRS over one of those anyday

You can't compare a handmade beauty to a mass produced factory guitar. Hey I like PRS's (except for the tremelo and the non-adjustable fixed bridge), but they are not a hand made guitar either.

They probably made more PRS's today (I mean literally today), than Matt Moriarty has made guitars. Go look on ebay and see how many PRS's are for sale there. Probably thousands!

(OK I checked, 1187 PRS's for sale on Ebay. I thought that this one looked real nice at only $10,000 :
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=2&campid=5335901301&toolid=10001&customid=forum&ext=http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRS-Private-Stock-3399-Model-513-Sapphire-Smoked-Burst-Finish-Amazing-Top-/250932056409?pt=Guitar&hash=item3a6cb75159&item=http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRS-Private-Stock-3399-Model-513-Sapphire-Smoked-Burst-Finish-Amazing-Top-/250932056409?pt=Guitar&hash=item3a6cb75159

Looks like it has a tremelo, so no thanks on that one, but the top is nice.

[Jon S.]

In my view, it is a mistake to characterize a PRS as a factory-built guitar if by that you mean little by hand craftsmanship. I've visited the PRS factory multiple times over the years and have gotten to know some of their workers personally. True, the bodies and necks are rough cut by CNC but after that, it's all human beings doing everything from the initial sanding to the final buffing. PRSs are not everyone's cup of tea nor should they be but they are finely crafted, highly consistent instruments of high quality.

P.S. Here's my own '86. Bought it new when neither myself nor anyone else I knew had even heard of Paul Reed Smith, much less played one of his guitars. Walked into my local shop to buy a Les Paul, played a bunch, then played the PRS Custom, bought the Custom, and spent the next year answering, "You paid $1400 for what?!" Well, the guitar's worth a bit more than $1400 today.

[tcsned]

In my view, it is a mistake to characterize a PRS as a factory-built guitar if by that you mean little by hand craftsmanship. I've visited the PRS factory multiple times over the years and have gotten to know some of their workers personally. True, the bodies and necks are rough cut by CNC but after that, it's all human beings doing everything from the initial sanding to the final buffing. PRSs are not everyone's cup of tea nor should they be but they are finely crafted, highly consistent instruments of high quality.

P.S. Here's my own '86. Bought it new when neither myself nor anyone else I knew had even heard of Paul Reed Smith, much less played one of his guitars. Walked into my local shop to buy a Les Paul, played a bunch, then played the PRS Custom, bought the Custom, and spent the next year answering, "You paid $1400 for what?!" Well, the guitar's worth a bit more than $1400 today.

True - While PRS now makes guitars overseas in more of a "factory" environment - there US made ones are different, especially the ones built before they moved into their big shop. I got mine in '89, gigged with it for 10+ years. Perfectly good instrument. Taylor uses CNC milling machines in their shop too, doesn't make them any worse than an all hand built one, less unique - yes but doesn't mean worse. Just because you like one thing or one type of guitar doesn't mean you have to slam another. Moriarity guitars look freaking awesome. I've never played one so I can't comment on that. I've never played a Lieber either but those look freaking awesome too, I'd love to own any of them. Making a guitar by hand one at a time is incredibly labor intensive and as such cost more. The larger shops can streamline things and save time and money with a division of labor. This doesn't necessarily reduce quality as you have guys who a really good at one aspect do that and the guys good at inlay and applying finish do that. People like Doug, Thomas, and Matt are a rare breed that can do it all and deserve to be paid for their labor. If you actually had Paul Reed Smith hand build you a guitar now it would probably make any of these guys' guitars look like a steal in comparison.

Just because you like this one or that one, doesn't mean the others are shit. A Les Paul Std list for almost $4k, a nicer one can be twice that. So the price that Thomas is talking about ain't that bad by comparison. No one has seen or played one yet so making judgements on them is a bit premature. I find it very cool that there is something coming out from the guys who designed these guitars for Jerry.

[Jon S.]

I agree with almost all of what you're saying (I just approached the issue "from the other direction").

[Mandoborg]

Miracles happen, but i'd be VERY surprised if Larry Robinson, Rick Turner, or Frank Fuller would show up for any kind of ' Dead' gathering. These guys are all in the present looking towards the future, not re-aligning with the past and a shady character. I don't know Doug and i have nothing against him for sure, he's influenced my building tremendously, but don't expect a lot of the 'old' guard to wave that flag.

[jeager]

Dear Mandoborg,
Not sure what you intend to imply by your comment but I am sure that all music has some connection to the past. The thing about 'Dead' music is that it continues to evolve and be a part of the future. In my opinion the Dead drew from the well of American roots music (and beyond) more than any other "rock" band I know of, and created their own synthesis that brought those elements into the present and future. While many of us on this forum may be happy to simply "realign with the past", there are a number of top professionals out there that have have drawn water from the well of 'Dead' music and are using it to grow something new of their own, this is similar to way that any improvising musician is probably drawing from Luis Armstrong at some level even if the result sounds totally 21st century.

[hippieguy1954]

Dear Mandoborg,
Not sure what you intend to imply by your comment but I am sure that all music has some connection to the past. The thing about 'Dead' music is that it continues to evolve and be a part of the future. In my opinion the Dead drew from the well of American roots music (and beyond) more than any other "rock" band I know of, and created their own synthesis that brought those elements into the present and future. While many of us on this forum may be happy to simply "realign with the past", there are a number of top professionals out there that have have drawn water from the well of 'Dead' music and are using it to grow something new of their own, this is similar to way that any improvising musician is probably drawing from Luis Armstrong at some level even if the result sounds totally 21st century.

+1...Not only are you 100% correct, but all good music is timeless!

[Mandoborg]

After re-reading my post i'm not sure i worded that correctly. It has nothing to do with living in the past or being influenced by the past, but it's more of a personal thing i beleive. Having talked with a couple of the above names , things weren't always peachy and sunny at Alembic . The feeling i get is it would be like going back to see your old girlfriend, the curiosity might be there, but do you really want to ? It's not on purpose , but Doug gets a lot of the limelight for stuff others have done becuase of the high profile of Garcias guitars. Again it's so hard to word this stuff because i admire Doug Irwin and those guitars, but i wouldn't expect the rest of that early Alembic crew to come runnin to any type of public gathering. They already talk amongst themselves so I'm not sure what more these guys can say about the earlier years that hasn't been said a million times before.

It seems like this topic comes up every few years. Wasn't it just a couple of years ago that they were trying to get some obscene amount of money for a new Doug Irwin guitar ?? I haven't seen one, or him, or anything by him, since 1990....... you know they saying "s**t or get off the pot" A import with your name on the headstcok doesn't mean bunk, just that you have enough captital to do it.

It surely is not my intent to ruffle any feathers here, i love this place and learn something with each visit. I've made some great contacts here and friends for life....

[jeager]

I did not really think you were trying to ruffle feathers, mine were not. I really don't know jack about all those builders, though I have tried one of those Rick Turner guitars and thought it was pretty awesome...

I work with a keyboard player who keeps referring to the song choices made by the rest of the band as "Armenian Folk" tunes, implying that he thinks no one in our audience knows the stuff, and shouldn't we include some songs that are more popular, get higher paying gigs, get more folks up dancing etc, etc... Some people just don't get it (I am sure you do though)....

[Rusty the Scoob]

I work with a keyboard player who keeps referring to the song choices made by the rest of the band as "Armenian Folk" tunes, implying that he thinks no one in our audience knows the stuff, and shouldn't we include some songs that are more popular, get higher paying gigs, get more folks up dancing etc, etc... Some people just don't get it (I am sure you do though)....

Total tangent.... but maybe bring him to a DSO show or other big tribute in your area? He'll see pretty quick that there's way more of an audience for GD music than for the same tired old classic rock hits.

[jeager]

Guilty as charged, total tangent...

[gdrfk1990]

^^^^ If you want to have a good Dead band everyone has to be into it. I solve that problem by having 2 bands one is a flat out grateful Dead tribute this band needs to have players that want to play Grateful Dead or it just won't work and must bring people to get gigs and get paid then I play classic rock acoustic and electric in just general cafes and bars and get paid mostly to play music people know to an already existing clientele but even when I do that I try to play Garcia Band stuff or Dead covers Ie. Lay down Sally, It stoned me, Second That emotion, The last Time, Lucy In the Sky, Dear Prudence, Mr Fantasy there is plenty of stuff to do especially if you include Ratdog and P&F

[jeager]

Well now we are really on a tangent...

We ain't a flat out dead band but the other song/writers we draw from can be far out of the mainstream at times. We keep getting booked anyway...

I better stop responding to the tangent I created, but thanks for responding...

[JustinJohn]

I am definitely interested in learning more about what will be offered by Doug and Tom, and I think $3k is reasonable for an instrument of high quality such as one would expect from folks of such notable skill. I am curious - will you only be offering Instrument builds and styles made popular by Jerry, or will you be offering traditional shapes (strat, LP) and perhaps original designs too?

Thanks!

=)