another mode question

Musical Theory Abound!!!

another mode question

Postby austinhumphrey » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:16 pm

i have heard that every mode has its own feeling or mood to it. i can't seem to figure out what each specific modes feeling is when i play through it. also can somebody explain how to choose a mode or scale for jamming along with a song that will sound good. most of the time when i try to jam along the scale i choose just doesn't sound right. Thanks for the help!
austinhumphrey
Rosebud
Rosebud
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: another mode question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:57 pm

They go from progressively light to progressively dark as you flat each note, in this order:

Lydian
Aeolian (Major)
Myxolydian
Dorian
Ionian (Minor)
Phrygian
Locrian

Try them all over the same root and you'll see what I mean.

Picking the right scale for a tune is a lifelong process to learn. In general if it sounds majorish try Myxolidian, if minorish try Dorian. There will be exceptions but those are the two most important and will cover most of the GD.
User avatar
Rusty the Scoob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2285
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:28 am
Location: Concord, MA

Re: another mode question

Postby Octal » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:39 pm

Rusty the Scoob wrote:They go from progressively light to progressively dark as you flat each note, in this order:

Lydian
Aeolian (Major)
Myxolydian
Dorian
Ionian (Minor)
Phrygian
Locrian

Try them all over the same root and you'll see what I mean.

Picking the right scale for a tune is a lifelong process to learn. In general if it sounds majorish try Myxolidian, if minorish try Dorian. There will be exceptions but those are the two most important and will cover most of the GD.

Not trying to pick too much, but I think you confused Aeolian and Ionian.
Octal
Terrapin
Terrapin
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Olympia, WA

Re: another mode question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:01 am

Yes, I did. :? I do that a lot, and then I second-guess myself and change the correct ones to the incorrect ones. :lol:

Correct list from light to dark:

Lydian
Ionian (Major)
Myxolydian
Dorian
Aeolian (Minor)
Phrygian
Locrian
User avatar
Rusty the Scoob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2285
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:28 am
Location: Concord, MA

Re: another mode question

Postby tcsned » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:53 am

I usually divide the scales up by where the third is - there are three with a major third and three minor third and one with a minor third and a diminished 5th. I would suggest ignoring the Locrian as it's a half-diminished scale and isn't used much.

Major-ish scales:
Ionian - major scale, light and happy
Lydian - light but strange/trippy - this scale has a raised or augmented 4th. In the major scale the perfect 4th is one of the most consonant intervals. The augmented or raised 4th is one of the most dissonant. This gives the scale it's trippy character.
Mixolydian - light but bittersweet - this scale has a flatted or lowered 7th. It adds a touch of bluesy-ness to the scale. It is used in country blues and country/southern rock.

Aeolian - minor scale, sad and dark
Dorian - dark, strange/trippy - this is a cousin to the Lydian scale. This one also has the augmented or raised 4th and gives this dark scale a trippy feel. I use an E Dorian scale for Dark Star (A / G / chord progression).
Phrygian - this one is dark with kind of a Spanish feel. The scale has a flatted or lowered 2nd and adds dissonance to this minor-ish scale. It works well over songs with a minor chord and a major chord one fret apart (like an E Phrygian scale over an Em --> F chord progression. I don't consciously use this one much.

I hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much.
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2485
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: another mode question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:31 am

Great post except for this:

tcsned wrote:Dorian - dark, strange/trippy - this is a cousin to the Lydian scale. This one also has the augmented or raised 4th and gives this dark scale a trippy feel. I use an E Dorian scale for Dark Star (A / G / chord progression).


Dorian has a regular 4th, same as Major, Mixo, Minor, etc. Good way to tell: A raised 4th would mean that there's a jump of 1 1/2 steps between the 3rd and 4th and no mode of the major/minor scale has more than a full-step jump.
User avatar
Rusty the Scoob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2285
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:28 am
Location: Concord, MA

Re: another mode question

Postby austinhumphrey » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:00 pm

thanks for the input! some of the stuff mentioned is a little confusing but this definitely helps and has me headed in the right direction! is there any other advice or tricks that might be useful ?
:-)
austinhumphrey
Rosebud
Rosebud
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: another mode question

Postby tcsned » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:06 pm

Rusty the Scoob wrote:Great post except for this:

tcsned wrote:Dorian - dark, strange/trippy - this is a cousin to the Lydian scale. This one also has the augmented or raised 4th and gives this dark scale a trippy feel. I use an E Dorian scale for Dark Star (A / G / chord progression).


Dorian has a regular 4th, same as Major, Mixo, Minor, etc. Good way to tell: A raised 4th would mean that there's a jump of 1 1/2 steps between the 3rd and 4th and no mode of the major/minor scale has more than a full-step jump.


Duh! You're right, I was making the mistake of thinking w/o a guitar in my hand :oops: It's a flatted 6th not an augmented 4th. Which, in essence, creates an augmented 5th interval against the root which would still give a strange, unsettling feel. Any of those scales that mess with the 4 or 5 is gonna be a little trippy. Thanks for catching that Rusty!
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2485
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: another mode question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:46 pm

tcsned wrote:Duh! You're right, I was making the mistake of thinking w/o a guitar in my hand :oops: It's a flatted 6th not an augmented 4th. Which, in essence, creates an augmented 5th interval against the root which would still give a strange, unsettling feel. Any of those scales that mess with the 4 or 5 is gonna be a little trippy. Thanks for catching that Rusty!


Sorry... still not right! Dorian is minor with a raised 6th... you're describing the regular minor scale.

The nice thing about that raised 6th is the way it leads up by a half-step to the flatted 7th that Jerry was so fond of.
User avatar
Rusty the Scoob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2285
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:28 am
Location: Concord, MA

Re: another mode question

Postby rugger » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:22 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Guitarists-Scale-Book-Peter-Vogl/dp/1893907449/ref=sr_1_96?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325718623&sr=1-96

Worth every last penny. The scales are large and easy to read and shown across multiple positions on the neck. Best of all he give you three different ways to conceptualize modes from most easy: just play an E major scale over B, to more difficult: think of this as the 5th degree of this scale. It also includes an example chord progression you could play the mode over. There might even be a CD with jam tracks--can't recall.

John in San Diego
rugger
Rosemary
Rosemary
 
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:24 am

Re: another mode question

Postby tcsned » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:33 am

Dangit Rusty stop being right! :)

Lol - I have a hard time thinking w/o a guitar
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2485
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: another mode question

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:58 am

tcsned wrote:Dangit Rusty stop being right! :)

Lol - I have a hard time thinking w/o a guitar


:lol: So do I, when it comes to songs, but scales I know pretty well. Making videos actually really helps me remember them better, I should get back on that project.
User avatar
Rusty the Scoob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2285
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:28 am
Location: Concord, MA

Re: another mode question

Postby tcsned » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:16 pm

Rusty the Scoob wrote:
tcsned wrote:Dangit Rusty stop being right! :)

Lol - I have a hard time thinking w/o a guitar


:lol: So do I, when it comes to songs, but scales I know pretty well. Making videos actually really helps me remember them better, I should get back on that project.

:? Darn dyslexia - I blame the Sisters of No Mercy in Catholic school for beating left handedness out of me. Or else, I need to keep a guitar at work ...
User avatar
tcsned
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2485
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Re: another mode question

Postby gdrfk1990 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:29 am

Garcia primarily uses just 2 modes Dorian for the minor sounding stuff and mixolydian for major stuff. He also uses a chord approach using different scales etc. over different chords in the same progression. But as a rule of thumb the progression tells you what Mode to use In major stuff if the 7 is a b7 major then you are going to use Mixolydian ex. in the key of C if the Bb chord is in there it's most likely mixo. Also the Minor 5 chord is a tip you are in Mixo. For minor sounding stuff if the 4 chord is Major it's dorian. Also keep in mind this is not hard and fast you can go chord by chord in which case when you see any chord there are a number of options. Also you would be surprised how often Jerry uses plain old Major and Minor Pententonic.

Mixolydian
Scarlet
Fire on the Mountain
Cold Rain and Snow
Foolish heart ( middle jam )
Dark Star ( back and forth A Mixo E dorian same 7 notes )

Dorian
Stranger
Playing Jam
Uncle Johns Jam
Tha Other One
gdrfk1990
Ice Cream!
Ice Cream!
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:00 am

Re: another mode question

Postby mkaufman » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:52 am

He uses mixolydian over dominant (major third, minor 7th) - think Truckin'. He uses ionian over major (major third, major 7th) - think Eyes.

Dorian (minor third, minor 7th) can be used over a minor or over a dominant (ie: playing a ii over a V chord such as Am7 over D7).

mk
THE best way to score gear: http://www.auctionstud.com

For discounts on extended Dell warranties: http://advantech-ny.com/mik/advantech/DellComputerWarranty
mkaufman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:26 pm

Next

Return to The Think Tank II

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests