Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby deadagainband76 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:46 am

Many times I find myself listening to Jerry with the Dead and Jerry Band from the same years and even the same month sometimes and it the gear seems to change a bit. I know the venues were different sizes and all but does anyone know if he had separate rigs throughout the years ? Pretty general topic but any input is welcome.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby rkubik » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:26 am

I am by no means an expert but from what I can remember from reading the differences in equipment most times was minimal. Later years I believe instead of using the in ear monitor like with the Dead Jerry kept everything on stage. With the JGB the volume Jerry played at was also set louder so I think at least to my ears where most of the difference is.

Also, it is my personal belief that in the later years Jerry put more emotion and joy into playing with JGB than he did with the Dead and at least I think you can tell a difference. Just my two cents.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby strumminsix » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:56 am

I often wonder if his tone was different or if it is perceived as different due to no Weir, no keys (yes, organ).

All too often I find that the midrange mix has a bigger impact on tone than most people expect.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:00 am

rkubik wrote: With the JGB the volume Jerry played at was also set louder so I think at least to my ears where most of the difference is.


I don't believe that's ever been that well established, other than Rock's comment in his book. JGB mostly played smaller venues with smaller stages and backstage areas, making the same amp settings seem louder, especially to crew standing behind the back line. But the GD also played the occasional theater tour, and I would bet it got even louder on or near the stage for those!
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby strummingturtle » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:29 am

I think his set up was the same. I think the biggest factor was the mix of different instruments and different players which equaled a different mix in sound. Jerry had a lot more frequency space as well in jgb. Yes and smaller venues play a part.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:15 am

Waldo has speculated, and in some cases I tend to agree, that Jerry may have chosen to use his humbucker setting with the DiMarzio more often than with common single coil setting he used with the Dead. Being the only guitar in the band, maybe it fattened and darkened his tone a bit.

Regarding the early days, I talked to a guy recently who saw a bunch of those Jerry/Merle shows in the '73/'74 era and he distinctly recalled seeing Jerry drive up in his Volvo sports car/hatchback and personally lug his pair of JBL'd Twin Reverbs into the club. No Mac, pure Fender. Waldo found some pic's of this rig of dual Twins. At this same time, Jerry was using his Twin preamp/Mc2300 rig with the Dead.


B
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby mijknahs » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:38 am

I think that Jerry's JGB tone changed along the same lines as his tone with the Dead (at least in the 80's) but his JGB tone does seem a little "rawer". That might be becuase most of the tone we hear from the GD is filtered through the big PA and a lot of the tone we hear from JGB shows is more immediate and direct from his speakers (especially at the smaller venues).

I'm still hearing the single coil tone in the 80's JGB.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby deadagainband76 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:48 pm

Listening to 75' , more so the legion of mary than anything else Jerrys tone is unreal. His guitar in March and april to be precise.. 4-20-75 if im not mistaking.. This sounds much different than the one from the vault .. say Eyes for example, Which is another favorite tone of mine. I think what we can conclude is that Jerry was capable of producing many good tones form what may or may not have been different gear. I do wonder how much of the tone was a result of the PA system which would have been smaller with JGB?
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby deadagainband76 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:50 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Waldo has speculated, and in some cases I tend to agree, that Jerry may have chosen to use his humbucker setting with the DiMarzio more often than with common single coil setting he used with the Dead. Being the only guitar in the band, maybe it fattened and darkened his tone a bit.

Regarding the early days, I talked to a guy recently who saw a bunch of those Jerry/Merle shows in the '73/'74 era and he distinctly recalled seeing Jerry drive up in his Volvo sports car/hatchback and personally lug his pair of JBL'd Twin Reverbs into the club. No Mac, pure Fender. Waldo found some pic's of this rig of dual Twins. At this same time, Jerry was using his Twin preamp/Mc2300 rig with the Dead.


B

In regards to the pickup position, I feel that is a result of finding the tone that cuts through the mix of the rest of the players but I could be wrong. Jerry had more ground to cover with JBG.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby tigerstrat » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:35 pm

we are comparing two wide-ranging variables. "Jerry Band" for example, can mean:

1. bolt-on neck, S-S-S pups, Twin Reverb combos, no effects
2. neck-thru, S-S-S pups, Twin Reverb combos, no effects
3. neck-thru, S-S-S pups, Mesa Mk I combos, no effects (tough to say where 2. changed to 3.)
4. neck-thru, S-S-S pups, Mesa Mk I>Mac>Cabs, no effects (this is also foggy or downright conjectural:^P)
5. aluminum neck, H-H pups, Mesa Mk I>Mac>Cabs, no effects
6. aluminum neck, 3x soapbar, Mesa Mk I>Mac>Cabs, no effect
7. aluminum neck, 3x soapbar, Twin>Mac>Cabs, no effects... OBEL, but no effects in JGB.
8. neck-thru, S-S-S pups, Twin>Mac>Cabs... still no effects

and that's just from 1972 to 1977! and of course the cross-over from D120's to K120's somewheres in there...
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby bdhact1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:54 am

Doesn't the stratoblaster contribute to his tone as well ?
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby mijknahs » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:29 am

bdhact1 wrote:Doesn't the stratoblaster contribute to his tone as well ?


Sure, but that would be the same with JGB or GD in that time period. The question is the difference between JGB vs. GD tone.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby gratefulnuge » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:17 pm

I find a lot more squish in Jerry's JGB tone. It's a lot spongier and vocal - which says mid range to me. I have to agree that it's probably most attributed to the lack of frequency range being taken up by other members and the amount of Jerry that we're actually hearing with 4 musicians on the stage rather than 6 - and as has been mentioned, Melvin really didn't play much in the way of dominant piano. I play now with Cats Under The Stars out of Burlington, VT and after playing for a long time with a Dead tribute, and sitting in for Vic with Playin' Dead, I feel that my tone changes a whole lot when going from Dead style music to JGB without changing anything technically in my rig. I've tried the Humbucker tone with CUTS and don't really dig it. It's definitely nice and warm, but I find it a bit too dark for Jerry stuff, and forces the sacrifice of the snarl and bark (think Althea, China Cat intro). Just my $0.02!
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby Smolder » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:44 pm

Lots more tonal space around the jgband than tha the dead. It's almost as if the mix purposely leaves all that room for him to fill. While im way into the dead and especially the improve jams, when I want pure Jerry guitar playing the solo stuff is where I go.
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Re: Jerry Band Tone VS Grateful Dead Tone

Postby TI4-1009 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:24 am

+1. I used to enjoy seeing the JGB from that perspective. The Dead was the "core", but it also got to be like Jerry's "Day Job". JGB was his vacation where he could take those side-trips he enjoyed without the baggage of the Dead. You could rarely hear Jerry play a 12-bar blues in the Dead.
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