Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby claytushaywood » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:38 pm

New to the forum and I'd like to say thank you very much for all the time and information you all have compiled and brought to the table. this is an awesome place than i'm glad to have found. After years of playing and listening to the dead I'm thinking its about time to pull the trigger on making a rig to get that jerry sound. I have a strat that i'm going to use for this (and i am a believer in the 25.5" scale for garcia tones) about the pickups, I know the super 2 middle position split is integral to the 80's garcia sound. But i was thinking about maybe working out a hybrid jerry caster. using vintage sounding strat pickups in the bridge and neck to get some alligator tones, back when he used (from what I believe I've heard) the bridge pickup more... thinking early 70's. the look may offend but im down with doing a s/h/s design! where I can completely take the super 2 out of the circuit or take the bridge and neck out... maybe individual on off switches for each pickup... kinda lame... but i dont know how else i'd pull this off. and im sure the super 2 would over power the bridge/middle combo... or is the super 2 split a lot less hot? would it blend? What strat pickups are recommended for alligator and old wolf tones? i found a little bit of stuff but not much on here (i am still really bad at searching forums for some reason). seems most people are interested in late jerry sounds. i am still considering doing a tiger wiring as i do love that sound, but i really havent heard enough sound demos of the SDS-1 and super 2 in the bridge for jerry tones. anyone got sound clips or videos? sorry for the random questions dispersed throughout, i am new to boards in general "ish"
ive actually read on the strat forums that the fender custom shop 54 set is one of the favorites for MANY strat enthusiasts- talking about people that have played a ton of pickups from boutique builders and everything- thought that was kinda cool considering they can be had for $130 NEW!
Thanks fellas!
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby PaulJay » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:15 pm

Hey, Welcome. When I asked a similar question a while back, what pick-ups could be used in a strat to get a gator like tone? I was told the Fender '57/'62's reissues.
But I am sure there are other choices. I think you should start with the output of the split super 2 and then find two single coils in the same range and keep the 5 position switch with a coil tap switch for the Super 2. ,Paul
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:13 am

I've always been a bit unclear on this, but doesn't the apparent fact that Jerry constantly replaced pups with stock in Alligator and early Wolf strongly imply that we should be looking for repro pups from the deprecated 70's-era and not vintage 50's-60's, which otherwise would be the default for strat purists?

Sorry, a bit off-topic.
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:51 am

Marlow wrote:I've always been a bit unclear on this, but doesn't the apparent fact that Jerry constantly replaced pups with stock in Alligator and early Wolf strongly imply that we should be looking for repro pups from the deprecated 70's-era and not vintage 50's-60's, which otherwise would be the default for strat purists?

Sorry, a bit off-topic.

I thought the pups in Alligator were the originals ?
The 1st version of Wolf had Strat pups in it ... I am unsure of the vintage.
http://wald-electronics.com/alligator.html
:D
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby Marlow » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:23 am

This was the subject of a conversation a while ago:

viewtopic.php?f=419&t=8911&p=85108

To get to the point, Waldo wrote that "ron wickersham, rick turner, and frank fuller all state he used stock fender single coil pickups and ALEMBIC did not wind or make jerry's pickups."

The background is that Jerry felt his pickups lost their wang dang doodle after a while, so apparently he was constantly replacing them with stock Fender pickups, presumably ones of recent manufacture. If that's true, and I tend to regard whatever Waldo says as virtual fact, it represents a great leap forward for we knights of the never-ending tone-quest, because stock Fender pickups from the early 70's are a lot easier to find/afford than vintage 1957 pickups.

So maybe the next question is "when did Fender switch from the grey-bottom pickups used in 1969 forward to the non-staggered pickups that appeared in ... well, either 1973, '74, or '75, depending who you talk to."

It makes a big difference. 1973-1974 was a high-water mark for tone, I think ... though I would also include '68-69, '70-'72, spring '77, and 78-95 ... so it means the choice between, say, Fender CS '69 pickups and non-staggered pickups like the kind that may or may not have appeared in '73 or '74, and thus may or may not have been in late Alligator and early Wolf.

The interesting implication is that if Jerry was indeed switching his pickups constantly, then the tone he was getting in '73-'74 was NOT due to some unique quality of a particular set of magical pickups. In theory, the basis of that tone should be in everyman's reach. In theory.

I am no expert on Strat pickups, mind, so if anyone wants to "chime" in on the enigma of strat pups c. 1973-74, please do!!
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby PaulJay » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:50 am

Listen to the strat in this video. To me it sounds pretty close to alligator. Wonder what pick-ups were in Jeff's Strat. If anyone knows him maybe you can ask. ,Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCU2ESLf ... re=related
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby claytushaywood » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:19 pm

i know the super 2 is a super high output pickup. but split would cut it in half correct? can anyone shed some light on this? is a split super ii about a strat output?

also, the super 2 is a ceramic pickup and height is not nearly important as alnico pickups... is this correct? I'd definitely want the super 2 far away from the strings in the middle position because i am using it on a strat and id need some clearance for the pick... it looks as if jerry had his pickups further away than humbuckers normally are right? so with the super 2 at full output at about 13k... and split at about 6.5k and far away from the strings... id probably want pretty MID output single coils to go with it or very low output humbuckers to match the super 2? i know impedance isnt everything in terms of output... so if anyone can shed some light id be much bliged! i was actually also thinking about doing a humbucker sized p90 in the bridge and a strat neck... yada yada yada! i do really dig gibsons burstbucker 1's out of vintage fender twins and pro's! by the way a silverface pro reverb (modded of course) is a great lower wattage option to the twin!

another quick question! i know jerry left his volume around mid way a lot! youd need some damn good pots (or of course the preamp system to pull this off) Is this something he did before getting the preamp system installed? like when he was playing alligator without the stratoblaster... was he using his volume pot around half or well below 10 a lot? wouldnt those military spec pots be a HUGE part of his sound if so? ive installed CTS pots that just dont jive with some pickups and dont work well. so WHERE TO GET those military spec'd pots he used for so long??
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby claytushaywood » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:46 pm

PaulJay wrote:Hey, Welcome. When I asked a similar question a while back, what pick-ups could be used in a strat to get a gator like tone? I was told the Fender '57/'62's reissues.
But I am sure there are other choices. I think you should start with the output of the split super 2 and then find two single coils in the same range and keep the 5 position switch with a coil tap switch for the Super 2. ,Paul



idid myself some research on the topic of jerry strat pickups and went to the guitar store yesterday and played some various fenders with various pickups inccluding vintage fender strats. the 50's strats and fenders with CS 50's and 54's and 62's were really not very good jerry pickups IMO. the 69's were much better and closer (i could hear some jerry tones in the 2 and 4 too as there isnt much quack in the 69's) even more close to some wolf SC tones was a 1978 strat with stock pups! very bright and belly- much more than 50's strat pups

FYI

Can anyone answer some of my queries in the above post? I know its a ton, but a couple answers would really help me out!
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby gpilcher2001 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:08 am

The super 2 isn't that hot. 8.7k. You can find mop spec pots by precision at tubesandmore.com. the rv4 type. About ten bucks a piece.
good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor.....
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Re: Alligator Tiger Hybrid!

Postby cousindave79 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:35 am

You can get pec and alessandro pots from antique music supply. That's who I went through. Easy to use website and good prices. I think that's tubesandmore.com

Imo. The 69 pickups sound great and if they sound good to you then
that's what you should buy.
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