E120s vs K120s

Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby mijknahs » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:58 pm

Oh, and Jerry used K-120's too - in the 70's. Depends what you like better.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby Counterstriker » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:54 pm

Awesome, I'm more going for the 80's tone, But thanks alot! I'm assuming this JBL is broken in, I pick it up tomorrow but the cab doesn't come till thursday so I'll know then! by any chance do you know when JBL discontinued the E-120?
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby mijknahs » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:28 pm

I bought a pair brand new ($250 per speaker) from West L.A. Music in 2003 but they might have been new old stock at that point.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby deadagainband76 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:56 am

Dont remember exactly how I came into the Ks, but Im pretty sure there was only two Es available at the time so I grabbed a K120 for my backup in my Truckers cab. Then when I got another cab I just grabbed another K so I could have two of each. Time will tell which of the two I prefer, but who knows..
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby Counterstriker » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:33 pm

Not to steal the thread, but look what I just picked up from a fellow rukinder, sants 8)

Image

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Only for 120$ and it's in excellent condition.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby deadagainband76 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:18 am

Very nice!!!!!
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:25 am

More than just a 70s vs 80s sound comparing the K120 and the E120, I'd also recommend considering the issue of loudness. I think more and more of us are finding truth to the notion that a key part of Jerry's sound was the sound of a stressed JBL, pushed to its power limits where a bit of rounding, smoothing, and compression begin to happen. For example, an E120 driven by a 50-70 watt amp is not even gonna blink, clean as can be, no stress. But a K120 with that same amp will actually begin to saturate a bit at peak power and some of that sweet harmonic "speaker distortion" can happen. So at lower power, the K120 is likely a better match. If you've got 150 to 250+ watts, AND you're actually using that much power on a very loud stage, then the E120 is gonna be more 80s "Jerry" sounding. Alnico and Ceramic magnets do have a different character. I'd argue that Alnico is inherently a more sweet sound compared to Ceramic, but if your amp rig begins to light up and make sweet stuff happen and the E120 is the right match for that power level so the E120 also begins to stress a tiny bit, then the E120 is the "sweeter" speaker for the situation. The E's handle much more power than the K's. The idea here is that we're actually trying to reach max power ratings of the speakers. Something happens there when the magnetic field of the magnet/voice coil "motor" is at its saturated limite and the excursion of the voice coil is also being pushed to near its limits. This is a musical place in guitar speakers. When I had the chance to ask Healy in person about Jerry's clean "clipping", the saturated JBL's was the first thing he mentioned.

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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby strumminsix » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:41 am

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:The idea here is that we're actually trying to reach max power ratings of the speakers. Something happens there when the magnetic field of the magnet/voice coil "motor" is at its saturated limite and the excursion of the voice coil is also being pushed to near its limits. This is a musical place in guitar speakers. When I had the chance to ask Healy in person about Jerry's clean "clipping", the saturated JBL's was the first thing he mentioned.

Brad

Brad, always appreciate your words of wisdom and your SMS has prevented me from buying an amp in while now :) Each time I read your view on this, which has been consistent, I keep coming back to a single thought: D120F. I fully agree with pushing the speaker to max. Seems a stack of D120s pushed by a clean poweramp would be a killer Jerry rig for most people who aren't playing HUGE stages.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby deadagainband76 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:46 pm

Words of wisdom Brad, Thanks. Since ill have Ks in one cab and Es in another ill be able to push them at different volumes and see how they sound. Cant wait. Thanks for all the input guys, I love this site.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby mijknahs » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:02 pm

Or maybe it was just Garcia's physical presence next to the speakers that was causing the clean "clipping" that is so elusive and hard to duplicate? You can't rule out metaphysics now...

He was probably bending the magnetic field by channeling souls from another plane and thus demagnetizing his pickups and causing the JBLs to sound incredibly bitchen in the process. Might as well give up on trying to reproduce that...
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby deadagainband76 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:26 pm

The Ultimate Jerry tone for me is early 80s. Mcintosh clipping? Or the JBLs clipping? Or both? Dont they both have the 300 watt rating, so couldnt they both be pushed to the same limit at the same time.. Or something like that?
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby mijknahs » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:02 pm

deadagainband76 wrote:The Ultimate Jerry tone for me is early 80s. Mcintosh clipping? Or the JBLs clipping? Or both? Dont they both have the 300 watt rating, so couldnt they both be pushed to the same limit at the same time.. Or something like that?


For early 80's, do you like the '79-'81 tone or more of the '82-'85 tone? To me, '82 was some of the best tone and was actually cleaner than '83. I wonder what the MC2500 had to do with it?
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby jeager » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 am

No expert, but as the previous post suggest e120 needs to be played loud imho. I tied one in my little music room and did not enjoy the tone, but could see where it would work in the right venue. People sound great in a band mix if they got all the other variables dialed in right (guitar, amp, technique!!!). Currently, I use 2 x k120, sms pre and a messa 50/50 watt power amp and it is plenty loud for small, medium clubs. I would have to be making my ears bleed on most of the "stages" and hurting our listeners to blow them (I think). We mic the cabinet anyway so...

Jerry played on stages that were as big as some of the clubs I play in...loud... yea, and was it not totally awesome? god I miss the guy.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby mijknahs » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:35 am

Don't forget Jerry played the same setup at small venues such as the Stone in SF and the Keystone in Berkeley with good results. I don't think he was switching to K120s for the small clubs either.
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Re: E120s vs K120s

Postby jeffm725 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:54 am

mijknahs wrote:Don't forget Jerry played the same setup at small venues such as the Stone in SF and the Keystone in Berkeley with good results. I don't think he was switching to K120s for the small clubs either.


I agree Jim, I dont think he would switch em. However "small room" is a relative term. The Keystone and the Stone were "small rooms" for Jerry but still bigger rooms than 95% of the people on here play with their version of the Jerry rigs.He was still able to open them up enough to hit the "sweet spot"... I was lucky enough to see a bunch of Stone shows in SF as well as theater shows back east (Roseland, Bushnell, Warner, etc....) Jerry's stage volume would blow your head off. I remember being 3rd row Jerry side at the Bushnell, but all the way at the end of the row so my seat was more in front of the PA stack than the stage. Even in that location I was hearing Jerry's guitar straight out of his amp more than I heard him being reinforced though the house! Even in the "Small rooms" Jerry would still open that rig up!!!!! People simply cannot play at that volume in Bars.
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